Master_Pedant
Rocky Anderson for President!
Joined: Mar 15, 2009
Posts: 4707
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:57 am Post subject: Will Democrats lose for a decade or go far-right? |
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Scott Walker's victory proves that money can buy elections. In the aftermath of Citizens United, it looks like corporations are no longer hedging their bets by donating relatively evenly to both parties but rather are shifting more heavily to the GOP. Will the Democrats be shut out or veer radically to the right due to these pressing structural constraints? Is there any hope that a left-leaning, populist politician of any party can win from now on with money being stuffed into the war chests of politicians who'll do everything to further corporate welfare and any policy that redistributes wealth upwards (from poorer to rich)?
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WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Europe is swinging left.
US credit unions are growing.
I'm not entirely pessimistic.
Even so, civilizations rise and fall. If I were you, I'd be learning Portuguese. I would be learning it fast. |
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AstroGeek
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Europe is swinging left. |
Parts of it. But on the other hand there are other parts that are instituting painful austerity and privatisations (UK, we'll see about Greece after the next election...)
I think that it might just be possible that if the Democrats get much more right wing (because let's face it, they're already right-wing) then you might start to see more and more people defecting to the Green Party. They would certainly be more than capable of providing a progressive option. If they're smart they will focus all of their energy on getting a seat in the House of Representatives (similar to how the Green Party of Canada focused most of its energy on getting the leader elected to the House of Commons). |
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WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Europe is swinging left. |
Parts of it. But on the other hand there are other parts that are instituting painful austerity and privatisations (UK, we'll see about Greece after the next election...)
I think that it might just be possible that if the Democrats get much more right wing (because let's face it, they're already right-wing) then you might start to see more and more people defecting to the Green Party. They would certainly be more than capable of providing a progressive option. If they're smart they will focus all of their energy on getting a seat in the House of Representatives (similar to how the Green Party of Canada focused most of its energy on getting the leader elected to the House of Commons). |
That doesn't really do anything about the money problem. The only thing that could actually turn the tide would be for the left to actually grow some huevos over here.
However, if we do end up with a dark age here with a bloated corporate aristocracy running things, just so you know, I am intent on being in the 1% when that time comes. |
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DC
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 16, 2011
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | Europe is swinging left.
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Not all of Europe, the majority of Europe is getting more extreme, the centre is being abandoned.
So you end up with countries like Greece where communists and fascist have punch ups on live TV or the Ukraine where most of Western Europe crapped themselves about Euro 2012 because they suddenly realised that the football stadiums they would be playing in were regularly getting filled by neo nazis chanting and saluting.
Fascists and football have a long history together, (organised nationalistic violence) and while it has been fairly common over the last 60 years to find a handful of skinheads throwing the odd salute to be present in football stadiums, the sight of thousands of them, proudly wearing swastikas, flying flags and doing coordinated salutes hasn't been seen in Europe since the Nuremberg rallies, until now of course...
Edit to add: Next time you think of calling Republicans fascists, try comparing their actions to this video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrhwps_bbc-panorama-stadiums-of-hate-euro-2012_sport
Last edited by DC on Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I kind of doubt there'd be enough votes for the Democratic Party to become just another far-right party; they'd lose the liberals who'd just become disgusted enough not to vote, and then the Republicans would just get the right-wing vote anyway. |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4889
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | If I were you, I'd be learning Portuguese. I would be learning it fast. |
Brazilian Portuguese? Or European? |
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Oldout
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Reading, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| The Democrats problem isn't only money. I'm looking forward to reading Ed Rendell's new book on the wussification of America. Who better to write on that topic than a former Democratic governor. We should be asking does Obama sit down to pee? And how many other "Democratic leaders" sit down to pee? |
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AstroGeek
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 29, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 1477
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Europe is swinging left. |
Parts of it. But on the other hand there are other parts that are instituting painful austerity and privatisations (UK, we'll see about Greece after the next election...)
I think that it might just be possible that if the Democrats get much more right wing (because let's face it, they're already right-wing) then you might start to see more and more people defecting to the Green Party. They would certainly be more than capable of providing a progressive option. If they're smart they will focus all of their energy on getting a seat in the House of Representatives (similar to how the Green Party of Canada focused most of its energy on getting the leader elected to the House of Commons). |
That doesn't really do anything about the money problem. The only thing that could actually turn the tide would be for the left to actually grow some huevos over here.
However, if we do end up with a dark age here with a bloated corporate aristocracy running things, just so you know, I am intent on being in the 1% when that time comes. |
True. It shows the need for grassroots mobilization and involvement in politics. Sometimes I think that the US is doomed--the only way to get things back to a proper democracy is to get the big money out of politics, but that can only be done if you have a proper democracy. Grassroots efforts and awareness campaigns are the only even half-way viable option. |
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John_Browning
ON A LIST SOMEWHERE
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 4456
Location: The shooting range
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Will Democrats lose for a decade or go far-right? |
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| Master_Pedant wrote: | | Scott Walker's victory proves that money can buy elections. In the aftermath of Citizens United, it looks like corporations are no longer hedging their bets by donating relatively evenly to both parties but rather are shifting more heavily to the GOP. Will the Democrats be shut out or veer radically to the right due to these pressing structural constraints? Is there any hope that a left-leaning, populist politician of any party can win from now on with money being stuffed into the war chests of politicians who'll do everything to further corporate welfare and any policy that redistributes wealth upwards (from poorer to rich)? |
I doubt much will change in the way of both parties fundraising capacity unless the unions diminish significantly in power...or Soros dies.
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9232
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem is the Democrats are the centrist party and the Republicans are the ideological party and it's more easy to captivate an audience with ideological rhetoric. That's why the "enthusiasm gap" exists. The right has a party that fully embraces their ideology while the left doesn't. The right is eager to vote while the left is apathetic and stays home on election day. |
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Greb
Phoenix
Joined: May 10, 2012
Age: 41
Posts: 565
Location: Under the sea [level]
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | Europe is swinging left. |
Parts of it. But on the other hand there are other parts that are instituting painful austerity and privatisations (UK, we'll see about Greece after the next election...). |
UK is not really Europe. Even if UK belongs to UE.
In US Europe is seen as a kind of block. But inside Europe there's several groups: 'Germanic' countries are the head of Europe. Scandinavia, well, is Scandinavia, but they could be considered as 'semi-germanic' some way. France keeps trying to be the second head of Europe, but it's loosing influence (la 'grandeur', that's more and more smaller). Mediterranean countries... well, nice weather, amazing food. And UK... well, they're still trying to decide if they're part of Europe, the 51th US state or something else. In general, the feeling in Europe is that Europe is the continent. UK is a kind of not always welcome guest.
Last edited by Greb on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29328
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Will Democrats lose for a decade or go far-right? |
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| Master_Pedant wrote: | | Scott Walker's victory proves that money can buy elections. In the aftermath of Citizens United, it looks like corporations are no longer hedging their bets by donating relatively evenly to both parties but rather are shifting more heavily to the GOP. Will the Democrats be shut out or veer radically to the right due to these pressing structural constraints? Is there any hope that a left-leaning, populist politician of any party can win from now on with money being stuffed into the war chests of politicians who'll do everything to further corporate welfare and any policy that redistributes wealth upwards (from poorer to rich)? |
both sides were spending generously.
ruveyn |
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SpiritBlooms
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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If it does die off, if we wind up with a one-party system, that will be a bad thing. We need at least two major parties to balance things out, to keep from becoming even more of a plutocracy. Once that happens, goodbye individual rights. Goodbye government by the people.
Oh wait a minute. That's already happened. :-/ |
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simon_says
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's a question of how the hispanic vote breaks.
If the Democrats sew it up as they have the black vote, the GOP will need every corporate dollar they can find. I see that a casino billionaire is threatening to drop $100 million to help Romney. That's like 1/10th of the total spending of the last election in one go. |
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