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Douglas_MacNeill
What's next beyond "Phoenix?"
Joined: May 11, 2007
Age: 49
Posts: 1289
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: Psychology Today on The Danger of the Wolf Pack Mentality |
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Aspies like us tend to oppose Autism Speaks for fear that its support for genetic research
may be the means for a new generation of eugenics practitioners to exterminate us.
Now, we have some reason to fear that the general public may be turning against those
who champion the rights of persons with disabilities, or so suggests Deborah Schurman-Kauflin:
Psychology Today: Killing the Disabled |
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Chris71
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology Today on The Danger of the Wolf Pack Mentalit |
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| Douglas_MacNeill wrote: | | Aspies like us tend to oppose Autism Speaks for fear that its support for genetic research.... |
Aspies like you, maybe, but certainly not ones like me.
| Quote: |
... may be the means for a new generation of eugenics practitioners to exterminate us. |
or a means to do something to relieve us from our misery.
If my parents knew they were to conceive a foetus that would live an aspie life, then the kindest thing to do would have been to abort me.
You might want to be less presuming when you open a thread with the expression "aspies like us" |
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questor
Hermit
Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 1983
Location: Twilight Zone
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: Abortion |
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I don't like being Aspie, and wish I had been born NT, but I would never want to have been murdered in the womb! There is nothing kind about THAT! Murder is not a kindness. It is among the greatest of cruelties!
Rather than looking for ways to detect Autism spectrum disorders in the womb, so they can be murdered, the scientists need to look for ways to cure the neurological conditions involved. FIRST DO NO HARM!!!  |
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Chris71
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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OK now someone is now preaching their religious views down my throat.
| Quote: | | ...the scientists need to look for ways to cure the neurological conditions involved. First do no harm. |
Would be nice.
But how do you explain that to those 'proud aspies' on here who preach the "there's nothing to cure" and try to ram that down our throats? |
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TheygoMew
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 04, 2010
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Psychology Today on The Danger of the Wolf Pack Mentalit |
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| Chris71 wrote: | | Douglas_MacNeill wrote: | | Aspies like us tend to oppose Autism Speaks for fear that its support for genetic research.... |
Aspies like you, maybe, but certainly not ones like me.
| Quote: |
... may be the means for a new generation of eugenics practitioners to exterminate us. |
or a means to do something to relieve us from our misery.
If my parents knew they were to conceive a foetus that would live an aspie life, then the kindest thing to do would have been to abort me.
You might want to be less presuming when you open a thread with the expression "aspies like us" |
Oh please. I've grown tired of people like you coming here to promote this by pretending to be an aspie.
No the kindest thing to do would be to nurture you and help you achieve.
If you think you're better of dead then why are you still alive?  |
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TheygoMew
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 04, 2010
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Onto the article. I agree 100 percent.
Especially this because of the sheer lack of empathy alot of people do have until it happens to them.
Those seeking to condemn disabled view them as nothings to be thrown away, just like trash. For the people out there who think it is noble to kill those with special needs, let me tell you something. There is nothing honorable about killing off the weak. I hear such phrases as ‘don’t you judge me unless you’ve walked in my shoes!” Funny thing is that the death advocates clearly are not in the shoes of those they seek to kill. And they are NOT putting themselves into those shoes. The truth is you don’t know how you will react until you are placed into any situation. You may spout off that you wouldn’t want to live a certain way, but things become much different when you are on the other end of the death needle. |
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vermontsavant
My father 1934 to 2010
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 1779
Location: Bellows Falls,Vermont USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Chris71 wrote: | OK now someone is now preaching their religious views down my throat.
| Quote: | | ...the scientists need to look for ways to cure the neurological conditions involved. First do no harm. |
Would be nice.
But how do you explain that to those 'proud aspies' on here who preach the "there's nothing to cure" and try to ram that down our throats? |
I have a quick question and i dont mean this as an interagation or to put you on the spot but you have powerfull claims on this forum.
you have said you dont object to cure or autistic abortion because you said those options would have suited you best.
one thing that the silicon valley autistics dont always get is how painfull autism is,physical pain,emotional pain and nerve pain.real autism is excruciating torcher even the more severe cases of aspergers can lead to torcher and extreme pain.i saw in your profile that your not sure if your autistic.my question is if your in so much pain that you wish you were dead or cured,you should have been diagnosed with full blown autistic disorder by age 5
_________________
Abstract concepts are for those who dont know there facts.Liaison for the political forum.Please contact if you have any questions or problems |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10209
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TheygoMew wrote: | Onto the article. I agree 100 percent.
Especially this because of the sheer lack of empathy alot of people do have until it happens to them.
Those seeking to condemn disabled view them as nothings to be thrown away, just like trash. For the people out there who think it is noble to kill those with special needs, let me tell you something. There is nothing honorable about killing off the weak. I hear such phrases as ‘don’t you judge me unless you’ve walked in my shoes!” Funny thing is that the death advocates clearly are not in the shoes of those they seek to kill. And they are NOT putting themselves into those shoes. The truth is you don’t know how you will react until you are placed into any situation. You may spout off that you wouldn’t want to live a certain way, but things become much different when you are on the other end of the death needle. |
Regarding Chris71's statements, I will say here that I am actually happy to be alive.
Anyway: I agree with the article. Recalling previous iterations of this topic, there are no doubt going to be at least a couple people showing up here to defend murderers and rationalize them into victims. |
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thedaywalker
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| i don't like autism speaks because autism doesn't speak people speak. |
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thewhitrbbit
Phoenix
Joined: May 31, 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 2166
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd rather people go after the blind pack mentality like the defense used in the Rodney King riots. |
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Azereiah
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Age: 20
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have Asperger's Syndrome, and I am proud to say that I am more capable of most things than anybody else I know. The only difference is that they actually go out and do it, whereas I sit around contemplating it until it's too late. That problem, I am currently working on fixing.
Autism spectrum disorders can be an extremely powerful thing if trained correctly.
NTs don't need training, because they're generic and automatically suited to modern society by socializing. Those with ASD are precision tools to be tuned for a specific job.
An attempt to "Cure" something that is found in the species naturally is like trying to "Cure" homosexuality.
Also, to Chris71...
Your problem isn't ASD. Your problem is either bipolar disorder, clinical depression, or borderline personality disorder - all of which exhibit the same symptoms of miserableness (or at least visible misery) that you happen to be showing. Do not mistake one disorder for a disease. |
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aghogday
KATiE MiA
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 4753
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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The author in the article is referring to psychopaths that enjoy killing the disabled, which is a reality but not a common reality for the disabled, as psychopaths are rare in the population, and their potential victims are certainly not limited to the disabled. That isn't a wolf-pack mentality it is a lone-wolf mentality.
But it is the larger, non-psychopathic general public as well as politicians, that are a much larger concern of the actual disabled population, as some in power, wish to take away their ability to be covered under health care, required for basic survival, for those economically disadvantaged individuals under the age of 26, depending on their parents policies, that have disabilities that are not serious enough to merit permanent disability benefits.
Or, those that have preexisting conditions associated with disabilities, that insurance companies ordinarily would refuse to cover without health care reform.
These individuals are at a much greater danger than what the author refers to, but it is psychopathy that she specializes in not the larger scope of society, and the lack of concern of those considered law abiding mentally healthy people, that believe that these partially disabled individuals are in effect stealing from them, if there is any potential that their taxpayer money is going to benefit these disadvantaged individuals with disabilities, that do not rise to the level required for government assistance.
Some of these individuals are the same individuals that vigorously oppose any type of human euthanasia, regardless of suffering potential, however they see no moral injustice in their values that provide little concern for their fellow human beings whom are economically disadvantaged and/or physically disabled that rely on health care services to lessen the suffering that occurs in real lives of their fellow citizens.
She does mention government briefly in her article but focuses on psychopathy. Where her article is reduced in scope is in the suggestion that this is a problem specific to psychopathy for those that might disagree with her article.
There will be many people that disagree with her brief suggestion that government policies are part of the issue, for those that strongly believe that everyone should pull themselves up by their boot-straps, including those that are partially disabled. That is a common opinion in society, based on the aversion of taking from the haves and giving to those that are not economically disadvantaged, per government policies.
They don't have knives or guns used as tools to kill the disabled, per the psychopaths that the author mentions, but they play a part in government policy through the commonly held values, among some, that only the strong should survive in society, even though slow suffering may occur for some in society, whom are disabled, if the push to take healthcare benefits away are successful
Close to a third of society wants to see health care reform repealed; they commit no crimes in this wish, nor are they evidenced psychopaths, but some do not concern themselves with the reality of those that require heath care to survive, that are not disabled enough to meet government requirements for assistance.
That is where the real wolf-pack mentality of society lies per those that are disadvantaged in society, that is a much greater concern for the disabled, either wittingly or unwittingly, than that of the lone wolf psychopath.
And finally, her article is not addressed at anyone who is not disabled by symptoms associated with autism. It is specific only to disability, of which thousands of different types and degree of disability and focused on psychopathic tendencies. |
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xenon13
Phoenix
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Joined: Dec 14, 2008
Posts: 3093
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology Today on The Danger of the Wolf Pack Mentalit |
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| Douglas_MacNeill wrote: | Aspies like us tend to oppose Autism Speaks for fear that its support for genetic research
may be the means for a new generation of eugenics practitioners to exterminate us.
Now, we have some reason to fear that the general public may be turning against those
who champion the rights of persons with disabilities, or so suggests Deborah Schurman-Kauflin:
Psychology Today: Killing the Disabled |
The growing hatred described in the article is caused by right wing demagoguery and idiocy that has been accelerated by the economic crash caused by right wing stupid neoliberal economics. Right wing idiocy and this insanity suggesting mediaeval levels of scarcity must be ended. This is a life or death situation. |
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thewhitrbbit
Phoenix
Joined: May 31, 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 2166
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Psychology Today on The Danger of the Wolf Pack Mentalit |
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| xenon13 wrote: | | Douglas_MacNeill wrote: | Aspies like us tend to oppose Autism Speaks for fear that its support for genetic research
may be the means for a new generation of eugenics practitioners to exterminate us.
Now, we have some reason to fear that the general public may be turning against those
who champion the rights of persons with disabilities, or so suggests Deborah Schurman-Kauflin:
Psychology Today: Killing the Disabled |
The growing hatred described in the article is caused by right wing demagoguery and idiocy that has been accelerated by the economic crash caused by right wing stupid neoliberal economics. Right wing idiocy and this insanity suggesting mediaeval levels of scarcity must be ended. This is a life or death situation. |
Umm...I hate to point out but if your worked about aborting autistic people and such, might want to keep in mind that it's LIBERALS who are pushing for more access to abortion. Might also want to mention that the great eugenics of the 20th century in Germany was under the banner of National Socialism, a LIBERAL political view. |
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thewhitrbbit
Phoenix
Joined: May 31, 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 2166
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Close to a third of society wants to see health care reform repealed; they commit no crimes in this wish, nor are they evidenced psychopaths, but some do not concern themselves with the reality of those that require heath care to survive, that are not disabled enough to meet government requirements for assistance. |
Not entirely true. Of course the media didn't mention this, but Republicans put forward a proposal called Small Bill Health Care Reform with the same goals of providing affordable health care to everyone.
You must not confuse those who are against Obama's health care reform with those who are against affordable and quality healthcare.
These people are against the government running health care because the government isn't very good at running business. Look at wait times in Canada to see a general doctor. Look at England where aids patients are being told they won't get basic health care at the end of their lives. They are against a bill that was pushed through without proper review, they are against a bill that you need a PhD to understand.
They are not against affordable and quality healthcare. I was meeting with a Republican candidate from Maryland in May and one of his main goals is affordable health care; but through the private sector. |
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