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aspienewbie22
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Aspergers: lying and stealing Reply with quote

So...not too long ago I found out that someone I know who I strongly suspect has aspergers (reading world history books at age 8; took well into adulthood to be comfortable going into a store without being overwhelmed by all the people; incredible memory; awkward gait and posture; highly knowledged in a few topics of interest; often fails to get sarcasm, analogies, and rhetoric questions; inappropriate responses to surprise events like emergencies; OCD/OCPD like; shuts down/shuts people out when "overwhelmed"; triggers that result in an outburst, followed by either being fine in 10 minutes or shutting down/out; etc.) had lied to me about some things. We discussed everything when I realized the truth, and he came clean. Well, a month back he was at the home of a friend with me. They noticed a few days later that a brand new microSD card was missing. I noticed the other day he had microSD card I hadn't seen before, which brought the missing card to mind, so I asked about it. He claimed he had had it for a while, but "forgot" he had it. He even named the store where he supposedly bought it (unusual brand...so I asked "Oh, where would you even get that kind from?"). I have since asked my friends whose card went missing the specs on it (e.g. didn't use word "micro," and requested size and brand). Anyhow, the card is the same, which means he stole it. Now, I'm not jumping the gun when I say he stole it..I have spent a LOT of time with this guy, and I have seen every electronics item he has. Many times. I also know that he doesn't have much money and no car, so if he had had this a while, it was from before we met. One of the things he had prided himself on was that before we met, he hadn't bought anything other than absolute necessary items for over 2 years...eg. no SD cards. So, based on that, I know he didn't just have it "lying around" from over 2 years ago. A 32GB SD card two years ago would have been freaking expensive!!

Anyhow, ramble and not the point. The point is...I have had this guy at my home LOTS. Sometimes even alone. I have NEVER had anything stolen, or if so, I have yet to find what he took. He really likes electronics and technology...is stealing a SD card associated with "hoarding?" Or is it just flat out stealing? And how to I bring this up? I mean, he's going to FLIP if I just approach him...and TBH, I'm not sure it's even worth it. In the end, he has a stolen SD card, and my friends are missing theirs. And...FYI...the card was brand new when stolen...so it would have still been in original packaging.
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outofplace
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't know that he is lying and stole the SD card for an absolute fact. It is entirely possible that he is telling the truth, even if it is a bit of an oddball piece. The only way to prove it's origins would be to view it's contents, if they have not already been overwritten. I would tread lightly here as there is a lot of down side to confronting him about it, and little chance of an upside.
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Aspinator
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Lying & Stealing Reply with quote

Lying and stealing comes from a lack of moral development. It doesn't matter if you have AS, or are a NT. Its like saying if someone picks their nose it must be an Asperger trait.
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aspienewbie22
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the lying was undeniable...and he did confess to it. And the SD card was stolen in the midst of the lies. So, it might be all part of some weird "phase" he was going through...do aspergers people ever cycle with things? like...im lying...and it feels GOOD! so i will steal, too. i mean, i have heard that people often lie and steal b/c they get a rush out of it. and lies and theft often go together.

And, no, I did not see him take the SD card. However, it is a brand you will not find in a normal store...in fact, I had NEVER heard of it. Which is why it stood out to me. But, lets say he did have one lying around in a cup in the corner of his room. I don't think its possible...like said, he was prideful on not having bought anything for over two years. kinda "F*ck the man! I don't need your consumerism." So, if he did have it before, he had it for over two years. Also, he doesnt forget ANYTHING. so, him forgetting it was in a cup is kinda akin to me forgetting to put on pants and going to work. or shopping. also, he bought a similar card about a month before the stolen one ended up stolen, to go with a tablet he bought at the same time. so, again, not forgetting...seems if he HAD forgot, buying a second one would trigger a memory of the first.

Anyhow, no...I did not see it. But he was alone in their house for 6+ hours while we were all gone separate ways...plenty of time. AND, two of the things I pulled up about his past that he had been untruthful about involved theft. (1) someone said he took something, he said he didnt...blah blah. anyhow, found it on the internet. and (2) found out he was arrested for shoplifting. and by 'found out' i mean i downloaded info pertaining to any arrest records there may have been on him. and, he didnt deny it when i talked to him about the lies.
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aspienewbie22
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lying...completely agree. the stealing...wasnt sure about, b/c i was reading one psychologist say that it can be related to hoarding items associated with a special interest...but he was referring to children, not adults.
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sharkattack
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Aspergers and I worked in a job in which just about everybody stole except me.

I have never stolen anything in my life and it is not a trait of Aspergers.

You seem to have meet one who does steal.

Would it have been fair to say stealing was a NT trait since I was about the only person who did not steal from my job?
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aspienewbie22
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying that it is a 'trait' of aspergers per say...like 'people with aspergers are compulsive thiefs.' I'm just wondering if it, as the psychologists summary had read, is something that may occur with specific types of objects, depending on the interests of the person, and if they have tendencies to collect items. Perhaps, maybe, something that could be triggered by a nagging voice that keeps reminding you that something you like is in the other room...and, some, though obviously not all, will end up giving in.
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bnky
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aspienewbie22 wrote:
something that could be triggered by a nagging voice that keeps reminding you that something you like is in the other room

Hearing voices is not an aspie trait either
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Chronos
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Aspergers: lying and stealing Reply with quote

People on the spectrum are far less likely to lie and steal than those who are not on the spectrum. However that doesn't mean it never happens.
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NeueZiel
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhhh its stealing. My sister does that shit all the time.

aspienewbie22 wrote:
I'm not saying that it is a 'trait' of aspergers per say...like 'people with aspergers are compulsive thiefs.' I'm just wondering if it, as the psychologists summary had read, is something that may occur with specific types of objects, depending on the interests of the person, and if they have tendencies to collect items. Perhaps, maybe, something that could be triggered by a nagging voice that keeps reminding you that something you like is in the other room...and, some, though obviously not all, will end up giving in.


People with aspergers do often collect items but that doesn't mean they feel the urge to steal them. Your friends alleged aspergers and his compulsive kleptomania are two separate things.
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Sanctus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally lie a lot. I also used to steal when I was a child, but I don't do that anymore. I'm pretty high on the sociopathy scale though, so that's probably the reason.
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Rascal77s
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Lying & Stealing Reply with quote

Aspinator wrote:
Lying and stealing comes from a lack of moral development. It doesn't matter if you have AS, or are a NT. Its like saying if someone picks their nose it must be an Asperger trait.


Moral development is only one cause of lying and stealing. Lying can happen out of embarrassment and stealing out of obsessive behavior. A person can know something is morally wrong and feel guilty about it but still commit the act.
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Anty28
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I learnt to lie around age 6 (and badly so), when my ToM fully developped (while most children learn to lie almost as soon as they can speak). I'm perfectly able to lie, it's just that I feel bad about it. When needed, technical truths are okay, though.

I did steal things when I was a kid, but most of the time without realising it and/or that it was morally wrong. Sometimes, when I was alone I "borrowed" some objects in another room and tried to put them back at their place before people arrived.
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Callista
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aspienewbie22 wrote:
lying...completely agree. the stealing...wasnt sure about, b/c i was reading one psychologist say that it can be related to hoarding items associated with a special interest...but he was referring to children, not adults.
Yeah, it's a kid thing. By the time you're an adult you have learned "stealing is wrong". Kids may not have a strong concept of personal property--adults usually do. It's an unusual Aspie who doesn't understand yours and mine by adulthood. I was a sticky-fingered little kid myself, except it wasn't related to a special interest; I just tended to sneak food from the pantry a lot. I had a real nose for chocolate and fruit leather. (If you don't know what fruit leather is, it's basically dried, pureed fruit--very sweet.)

If he stole it and tried to hide that he stole it, chances are his concept of personal property is just fine, and he's simply a person who made a morally unwise decision. Not that being an Aspie and having it related to your special interest wouldn't make it more tempting, but it's not like you have no clue that you're taking what isn't yours.
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CyborgUprising
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see where the taking of other's property can be viewed as hoarding, but stealing is wrong, plain and simple. If he wants to hoard SD cards, he can either buy them or ask for them from people. That would be a great gift idea if he likes them so much. There is no excuse for lying regardless of condition. I sure wouldn't lie or steal. If I want something I cannot afford, I just save up for it. If you want to be 100% sure he stole it, look at the files on it (presuming he hasn't augmented them in any way). Approach him saying "I need to use that SD card for a moment, my computer's acting up and I need to save a file. I'll give it right back." I know this is technically lying, but if you're like most parents I know, you'd say otherwise. You can also take the direct and honest route (what I'd do) and ask to see the card to prove he didn't take it.
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