"Poor social skills" or other people's bad manners

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What exactly is popularly (i.e. by the everyday folks) meant by "social skills"?

Before I was officially identified as being on the autism spectrum, I would have vehemently denied a lack of social skills, and to be perfectly frank, I'm not sure I buy it now.

I feel that my family of origin did an adequate job of teaching me the rules of human engagement: remembering one's P's and Q's, how to greet or address people formally or informally, correct table manners, waiting your turn, letting an old person sit down on the bus, waiting to be offered things instead of loudly demanding them, etc.

I was discussing with my partner the other day about how I have encountered people completely turning the tables on what I was taught was correct social behaviour.

Here are some examples:

1. Let's say Mary and I have been talking alone in room (it doesn't matter what about). Susan enters and says hi. I can almost guarantee what will happen sooner or later. The conversation might very briefly go from a two-way encounter to a three-way encounter while basic pleasantries are being exchanged.

However, at some point, the conversation will switch to being between Mary and Susan, with me listening on the sidelines. By the time I realise I have been left out, the Mary/Susan exchange will be too far down the road to easily find an entry point back in. It's almost as if from Mary's point of view, I would do as a conversation partner if there is no one else there, but just as certain particles form stronger bonds with certain other particles and weaker ones with others, the preference to chat only with Susan wins out.

They are both rude: Mary for turning all her attention to Susan, and Susan for not realizing that she had taken over an existing conversation. I was brought up to realize that excluding someone and monopolising the conversation were rude. However, it seems the way that all the hypothetical Marys and Susans I've encountered think that it's up to you to just keep making your presence known, however you do that.

2. A group of people at a gathering invite me to come and join them. (Perhaps they all know each other much more than they know me.) However, once seated in their circle, they endlessly talk about people known to them but not to me, or about sports I do not follow, TV shows I do not watch, places I haven't visited, or aspects of popular culture about which I know nothing.

Where I grew up, only talking about subjects about which another person present knows nothing, and therefore cannot participate, was considered impolite. The person who simply barged their way into the conversation was considered crude.

But I've been in similar situations where members of the group have eventually commented, "You're very quiet," or even made a remark like, "You're boring, you don't say anything!" In other words, these people's entire purpose of inviting another there is not to include that person and put them at their ease, but an expectation that the invitee will provide entertainment value.

Again, these people seem to think that it is simply up to you to push your way into the conversation and join in somehow, anyhow, just for the sake of making your presence known.

3. At a gathering where I do not know anyone, I enter a room full of people whose conversations are already in full swing. I try to catch someone's eye or look for a friendly face, hoping that I won't be completely invisible to the other people and spend the evening in the kitchen.

This is very rude, both on the part of the host and other attendees. I was taught that if you invite someone, you welcome them when they arrive and introduce them to the other guests. Yet here's the 180 degree switcheroo most people these days run on you - they seem to expect YOU to do the approaching, and if you haven't gotten the attention of the group and won them over within a couple of minutes, again, you're deemed to have "poor social skills".

My partner says it sounds like a case of poor breeding on the part of all the people concerned in the scenarios above, rather than poor social skills on my part.

However, in all cases, rather than realize their own manners are lacking, people choose to place the onus on the person who is getting left out.

A recent exchange of letters in a London free newspaper illustrates this same phenomenon perfectly, where a pregnant woman wondered why so few commuters offered her a seat on the Tube. As expected, there were all the usual replies along the lines of, "If you need a seat, just ask," and "You're pregnant, not mute."

As far as I'm concerned, if someone is obviously pregnant, injured, ill or otherwise more needing of a seat on the train or bus than most, and no fellow traveller is offering a seat, there must be something wrong with those remaining seated: either with their eyesight, their thinking processes, or their manners. Perhaps that pregnant woman felt as I would: she would grit her teeth, hold on, and hope no one elbowed her bump, rather than risk being ignored or refused by the people she asked, while other passengers stared at her for speaking up.

So, just how is Joe Public defining social skills? It's hard to figure out exactly, and that uncertainty in pinning it down to a set of behaviours and attitudes that can be precisely defined and delineated makes things hit-and-miss for those on the spectrum.

It seems to be some nebulous combination of natural gregariousness, a desire to entertain, titillate and generally push oneself forward, nosiness about other people's business, having a ready supply of banal chat (and put-downs), together with a sense of expectation/entitlement that they will be positively regarded and supported by others, and all of which is not necessarily communicated in an obvious way, but by subtle hints, in-jokes and non-verbal signals that can be easily missed.

Worse, instead of being a clear-cut set of methods of conduct which can easily be taught, it is perceived that you either have this Ingredient X or you don't - which leaves the door wide open for the crude steamrollering of those with more refined expectations of how to behave, and how others should behave.

Actually, it isn't rude when someone takes over a conversation. Also what's the deal with not participating in a subject you know nothing of? I participate in conversations in those cases too, but I ask them what's it all about and iif it's like this or like that...Just because you're not familiar with what they're talking about doesn't mean you can't contribute. I notice that a lot amoung people with asperger's. They refuse to talk about subject they don't know of. But try to open up a bit and TRY to know what they are talking about so you can talk too. Also what if the third party doesn't have a clue what you are talking about either?Or maybe the topic has been dwelled on for too long.

Social skills is knowing how to be so people will desire to include you in the conversation. This is, sadly, never taught to aspies. Aspies are taught the rules of politeness, which as you rightly point out, don't make any difference. Being a perfectly polite outsider can even look more odd than being a natural one.

The reason Mary prefers to talk to Susan is that Susan belongs to her same world.

If they become upset they are rude. And taking over a conversation is not rude to me maybe since people do it all the time and I see nothing wrong with letting them enjoy themselves by talking about what they want to talk about. It's not bullying at all. They aren't threatening to punch you or telling you to get out, you just have to participate if you want. If you don't then simply don't.

The point is that it's not about what you say, but about how you say it.

A few years ago in school, we were waiting in from of the locked physics room. Most people (not including me) were standing in a circle. A girl arrived a bit late, and she just directly asked: "Do you let me join your circle?"

If I had asked this, it would have apperead rude and awkward at the same time, but in the way she asked, it was just fine. (OK, she was generally perceived as "slightly bitchy", but if you know the rules of social interaction, your character is of surprisingly low importance.)

Well the problem is you do not see the situation like the general population does. Nt's do it all the time and it isn't rude since the people that come into the conversation are actually well-received with smiles. If you really want my point of view. It is rude of you to NOT want another person to come in and join the conversation. They want to talk too and obviously if the other person is talking to them it means they are well-received. That is how the world of NT works. And in our world, it isn't considered rude at all. I'm actually surprized you hold this view. I get what you say about manners, but taking over a conversation may be unintentional since you say you don't know of the topic. Maybe they thought you knew, it all depends on you if you want to join or not. When that happens to me I try to include myself by asking about it, if they answer me respectfully, they are not rude, but if they get mad, then of course they are rude. But most people are glad to tell me about what they are talking about. If I'm not interested, I just excuse myself and do my own things.

lol oh you mentioned Romney? Are you talking about the presidential debate? I supported Obama the first time, but wow...that Romney guy had his act together and he made his intentions and beliefs sound so eloquent! I don't know who I will vote for! I look forward to the next debates. And btw I think politicians have to force their way into saying what they need to say or else they will look too weak. And I also do not like bossy people, I wonder if we are talking about the same situation not of a bossy person. Though I assume you are talking about a polite person who jumps in and wants to talk about something else. THat there is not rude at all. It is normal and happends all the time. Plus if your friend happily receiveed them, then they are not being pushy at all since it seems you are the only one not wanting to receive them.