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zacb
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12 Dec 2012, 10:37 am

Or do you think not?



ruveyn
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12 Dec 2012, 11:13 am

No Way! Rand was both an NT and a neurotic.

I have discovered in the Objectivist Forums a general misunderstanding and even a hostility toward autism and AS. The Shi'ite Objectivists have told me that I have no such condition and that I am simply an evader. Hah! The only Objectivist Forums where an AS or someone on the spectrum can publish unmolested is Objectivist-Living.

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marshall
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12 Dec 2012, 12:58 pm

No. She was a sociopath.



xenon13
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12 Dec 2012, 1:30 pm

No I do not. As far as evil people with the ASD goes, there's a better case for Hitler.



minervx
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12 Dec 2012, 2:01 pm

Just because a historical figure is idiosyncratic, unique and peculiar, doesn't mean they have AS.



Giftorcurse
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12 Dec 2012, 2:16 pm

She sounds like an anus.


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ruveyn
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12 Dec 2012, 3:34 pm

marshall wrote:
No. She was a sociopath.


How so? She had opinions disagreeable to many. But that is not being a sociopath. Maybe it is being a pain in the arse, but certainly there is nothing immoral about having opinions contrary to the prevailing view.

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marshall
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12 Dec 2012, 4:35 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
No. She was a sociopath.

How so? She had opinions disagreeable to many. But that is not being a sociopath. Maybe it is being a pain in the arse, but certainly there is nothing immoral about having opinions contrary to the prevailing view.
ruveyn

No, she was a self-aggrandizing elitist dimwit who hated altruism or the slightest notion of common fairness with a passion. Opinions and attitudes can be immoral because opinions opinions and attitudes have consequences.

If I was of the opinion that child rape should be legal would you refrain from saying my opinion was immoral just because I have the legal right to have such an opinion? ..... So what is it? .....

I thought not.



ruveyn
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12 Dec 2012, 4:40 pm

marshall wrote:
No, she was a self-aggrandizing elitist dimwit who hated altruism or the slightest notion of common fairness with a passion. Opinions and attitudes can be immoral because opinions opinions and attitudes have consequences.

If I was of the opinion that child rape should be legal would you refrain from saying my opinion was immoral just because I have the legal right to have such an opinion? ..... So what is it? .....

I thought not.


Think again. Everyone has a dead absolute right to an opinion on any topic. Opinions per se are neither moral nor immoral. Only actions are moral or immoral. Die Gedanken Sind Frei! Actions as consequences of opinion may be judged. But the opinions in and of themselves have no moral import. When you want to hold someone morally responsible ask them what they DID, not what they THOUGHT.

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thomas81
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12 Dec 2012, 6:57 pm

Giftorcurse wrote:
She sounds like an anus.


Nah. At least anuses have sex appeal.


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auntblabby
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12 Dec 2012, 11:30 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Giftorcurse wrote:
She sounds like an anus.


Nah. At least anuses have sex appeal.

except when they're passing gaseous obnoxiousness.



MCalavera
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13 Dec 2012, 1:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
No, she was a self-aggrandizing elitist dimwit who hated altruism or the slightest notion of common fairness with a passion. Opinions and attitudes can be immoral because opinions opinions and attitudes have consequences.

If I was of the opinion that child rape should be legal would you refrain from saying my opinion was immoral just because I have the legal right to have such an opinion? ..... So what is it? .....

I thought not.


Think again. Everyone has a dead absolute right to an opinion on any topic. Opinions per se are neither moral nor immoral. Only actions are moral or immoral. Die Gedanken Sind Frei! Actions as consequences of opinion may be judged. But the opinions in and of themselves have no moral import. When you want to hold someone morally responsible ask them what they DID, not what they THOUGHT.

ruveyn


Spot on.



JezebelL
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13 Dec 2012, 10:25 am

It makes no sense to say everyone has a "right" to an opinion since you cannot legislate people's thoughts and mental lives and I do agree that this means society can only judge an action morally, not an opinion alone. However I think as individuals and social groups we can and do make inferences about an individuals moral character and fitness and can make conclusions about someone based on the opinions they hold and espouse.

First, there are cases where people's actions and their opinions conflict or are inconsistent with each other or their actions. We call these people hypocrites at least and likely also find them to be self-righteous asses!

Second, there are cases where people hold ludicrous or wholly insane opinions like that there is a grand conspiracy with illuminati or that the Rapture is coming - such people are instantly labeled ungrounded and possibly psychotic.

And then there's the Ayn Rand's of the world's whose opinions, if acted upon or enacted in the world, would lead to immoral consequences. These people are amoral in that they are sociopaths or have a personality disorder and thus aren't moral beings since they do not have true moral systems but rather have self-serving rationalizations. She's just awful!



MCalavera
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13 Dec 2012, 10:33 am

It's not so black and white.

At one time in life, a person may espouse a certain moral opinion only to end up at a later time changing his views and having an opinion that contradicts his prior opinion.

Let's say he used to speak against homosexuals in the past. And now he no longer speaks out against them and in fact supports them. So what does this mean? That he was once a sociopath and now he's not? Opinions come and go and may vary not only with the person but with time and circumstances.



ruveyn
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13 Dec 2012, 11:23 am

JezebelL wrote:
It makes no sense to say everyone has a "right" to an opinion since you cannot legislate people's thoughts and mental lives


That is precisely why EVERYONE has a right to their opinion. There is no way of regulating how people think. Only their external public actions can be regulated.

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JezebelL
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13 Dec 2012, 1:57 pm

Regulating human behavior isn't exclusive to legislation or formal state punishment: social groups and societies can regulate what is acceptable behavior outside of formal governmental systems. Granted, whatever opinions you have floating around in your mind are beyond the reach of any external regulation. However, sharing your opinion is an external public action and qualifies as behavior that can be subject to social forces that can shape future actions and regulate human behavior.