Incidence of AS in Jewish population

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Someone posted this to another discussion list im on. i have no idea if this statement is true or not. but its kind of interesting.what do you think?

steven spielberg...he was AS wasnt he? and jewish?

PS this is the BEST and most positive description of AS ive ever heard.

MontereyHerald.com
December 24, 2006
"Playwright Pens New Book"
http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/monte ... 311586.htm

[Playwright David Mamet] ... presents the daring theory that Hollywood's creators suffered from a form of autism.

"Asperger's syndrome helped make the movies," writes Mamet. "The symptoms of this developmental disorder include early precocity, a great ability to maintain masses of information, a lack of ability to mix with groups in age-appropriate ways, ignorance of or indifference to social norms, high intelligence, and difficulty with transitions married to a preternatural ability to concentrate on the minutiae of the task at hand.

"This sounds to me like a job description for a movie director. Let me also note that Asperger's syndrome has its highest prevalence among Ashkenazi Jews and their descendants.... This group constitutes... the bulk of America's movie directors."

__._,_.___

where are the Ashkenazi Jews from geographicaly?I ask,because my boyfriend os jewish and his grandparents are from some area of Russia(yeh,I know it's a big place,lol)

I think he and his best friend(also jewish)have a lot of aspie traits but my boyfriend says ...."its a jewish thing".I do think there is a statistical connection,would love to see some one break down the numbers.

I'm Jewish, from my mom's side. But I'm pretty sure I get my Asperger's from my dad's side. And he was brought up Christian. This sounds interesting, though.

Northern, central,and eastern Europe. They comprise the most prevalent Jewish culture in North America.

When it comes to saying something is jewish or not, you are treading thin ice!

During times like in the book of esther, a lot of gentiles converted to judiasm. The book of esther is widely accepted historical fact, and celebrated by jews every year as purim. The villan even had a desert named after him!(hamen taschen)

During times like the NAZI uprising, a lot of jewish people converted to being christian or catholic. AGAIN, accepted historical fact!

The jewish people have been all over, and especially in the german area. Just listen to yiddish, or have a bagel, and you will see the connections there. Of course, names like einstein and spielberg ALSO give that away.

Jewish people ARE supposed to marry only jewish people. HEY, that is tradition, and even in the old testament, look it up! But they certainly haven't done that much of the time.

Still, I think the jewish prevalence in the movie industry has more to do with other things than talent. There are a lot of gentiles with talent, and a lot of jewish people(Even well known in the industry) that DON'T have talent.

Steve

I've been asking the same question myself about the prevelence of AS in Jews. A large number of Nobel Prize winners were Jewish as are many on the lists of famous proposed autistics. There's also the stereo-type of Jewish men being neurotic and brainy. Yeah, I know, it's a stereo-type. But I wonder if there's some truth to it seeing how they traditionally study Talmund by having detailed discussions about the minutae of each passage, value education and amoung those who are "cultural" Jews, make up a disproportionate amount of agnostics/athiests.

Also, it seems strange to me how, throughout history, Jews have been viciously scape-goated throughout the world for such illogical reasons....just like aspies are. Could it be that gentiles subconciously perceived some kind of "aspieness" that made them bully Jews just like they do people on the spectrum today?

Last edited by nirrti_rachelle on 13 Jan 2007, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm half-Jewish, and I know for a fact I have AS. I don't know if the Jewish heritage has anything to do with it, though.

Interestingly, a recent study showed that Israel is the most extroverted country in the world (has the largest percentage of people who are extroverts). Among the population, there is a large number of Sephardic Jews, those from Southern Europe, mainly Spain, who probably have lower rates of AS and/or come from more outgoing cultures.

(The study also showed Japan to be the most introverted country.)

I find this very strange. I haven't seen anything in any of my reading that suggests that it's more common in jewish people.

Yes, I have considered this too, that there seems to be a high prevalence among Ashkenaz Jews but not Sephards. It would indicate a genetic component, certainly. And the Ashkenaz have a history of marrying gentiles (along the matrilineal side, so Jewish males marrying gentile females) despite what is commonly thought. So it is not a "Jewish" thing per se, but more likely the influence of eastern europe. But the fact that jews are more closely inbred than the gentile population would explain the prevalence.

It could also trace back to the Kuzari, who converted en masse around the 7th century in the Caucasus region. I read a study which indicated 30% of Ashkenaz men carry a Kuzari genetic marker.

nirrti_rachelle,

I have met a LOT of jews, even RICH ones, that were FAR from brainy! My father has a LOT of jewish friends through a business he ran, and his current hobby. My step mother is jeiwsh(he met her through his hobby).

I was last "witnessed" to by a Jew with jews for jesus, and met a LOT of jewish people THERE. BTW some were even ORTHODOXED jews. I met an heir to the hertz fortune, for example, that is ostracized by his family because of his beliefs. I went to ANOTHER church during 4 services with a reform synagogue, and I went to a service in a conservative synagogue. I EVEN spoke with some ultra orthodoxed jews.

HECK, I could probably give a passable arronic benediction IN HEBREW(I certainly used to be able to), and know some hebrew. I also know some yiddish, although I know a lot of german and some polish too, so I may know even MORE yiddish. En bissil(sp?) wasn't hard to decipher since I knew ein bisschen(a little), for example.

So I would say I have some good experience here! Most of them do NOT follow the torah! Not even those that claim and seem to! They follow the MISHNA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mishnah

Even THEN, it is followed NOT because they have necessarily read it or whatever, but because of TRADITION! THIS is why they won't even flip a light switch on the sabbath, or have a cheeseburger! NEITHER is actually in the Torah per se, but is RABBINIC interpretation and tradition based on their understanding of things that ARE in the Torah.

Such things, and the fact that you really can't follow it all and see others maybe doing better while following NONE of the rabbinic laws, make being agnostic or atheist an obvious choice. Some are atheists, and claim not to be just for business or heritage!

BTW most jews apparantly don't even know hebrew! Most claiming to be able to read it mean ONLY that they can sound out the alphabet.

As for the NAZIs attacks against the Jews, etc.... It was certainly NOT because they seemed like ASPIES! In fact, most of the reasons were things many aspies WOULDN'T, or just don't, do. Do you REALLY think that Kristallnacht(Against simple shop keepers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

had anything to do with them stimming(I bet NONE did overtly), or being introverts(they tend to be extroverts), or intelligent(not considered an intelligent profession). Or even using big words?(NOPE!). NOPE! It was because they were seen as foreigners profiting from the worlds problems and especially Germany's. That goes HAND IN HAND with NATIONAL SOCIALISM (NAtionalsoZIalismus), and their battle cry of germany for the germans. Even their anthem of germany over all.

Steve

I'm Jewish and aspie. I'm a bit skeptical about the claim that Jewish culture is somehow more aspie-like than other NT cultures, if only because chit-chat and socialization in general are extremely important. I'm also not sure about the claim that it's more prevalent among Ashkenazim. I have both Ashkenazi and Sephardic ancestry and I can tell you that the Sephardic side of my family is probably MORE autistic, not less. Of course that's just one data point, but clearly further research is needed before reaching any conclusion.

I'm not sure what Steve's claims about Jews have to do with this topic and frankly I find his tone a bit grating.

Sorry about that. nirrti_rachelle made a lot of claims that are probably believed by a lot of people. HECK, I used to believe them. I HATE it when ANYONE gets unjustly praised, etc... SO, when I hear her talk like ALL jews are smart, etc... and they aren't, I speak up. HECK, I would have said the same if she said all whites, etc.... were.

BTW this reminds me of another thing. Has anyone ever seen any show like Nanny? A lot of jewish mothers ARE like that! Well, MY mother is like that and ISN'T jewish, so I am not saying that it is a jewish trait. BUT, even some JEWISH people refer to those people as JEWISH mothers. I say this only because it is extroverted, and most aspies would HATE it! So HOW could anyone get the idea that aspie traits are tied to jewish people?

BTW for the record. You will NEVER find anything I said against steven spielberg. I like him, his movies, etc... I saw a number of the films he did, and I liked them. From what I heard, he is a good person. He seems nice, does well in films, etc.... So NO, I am not saying anything against you or jewish people on the whole. Just trying to put things into perspective.

Steve

Completely understood, thanks. I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I know that the "(Ashkenazi) Jews are smarter" myth can be harmful, certainly. Many of my Sephardic relatives have complained about being teased by Ashkenazi kids as children and all that. OTOH it is known that certain conditions (like Tay-Sachs) really are more prevelant among the Jewish population and I think it's possible (though by no means proven) that AS/autism is like that, too.

Yeah, some, like tay-sachs, do seem to have a tie. I think they are pretty rare though. Also, it may be like the episode of MASH where klinger is IGNORED when he complains about problems that only blacks seem to have, and it is later found that mediteranian people can be affected also.

BTW Wikipedia DID say that some in quebec and louisiana have the disease but a different variant. I shouldn't continue, but THIS is interesting:



SO it is saying that carriers MAY be smarter because lipid storage may facilitate dendrite growth(So the brain is more plastic, and learning is easier)

It doesn't sound like a good tradeoff, but it IS similar to AS which has similar effects at the expense of having LFA kids and/or a more solitary lifestyle.

Also, RDOS may be interested, as he said there were things like a tie to red hair, and jewish people aren't known to have red hair. YEAH, I know, they CAN! It is just that it is universally recognized that mediteranian people historically as a group DON'T.

It is ODD all the rumors going around! One person said she heard that there was a tie to type A blood. Well, coincidently, that IS one of the most common blood types, so even a 60% corellation wouldn't mean much. A survey indicated a VERY high percentage of RH NEGATIVE but otherwise nothing stood out. One indicated there might be odd physical traits. If I have any now, it might be 1 or 2, but they are subtle. Still, the actually DSM says there is no clear visible indicator.

Steve

I would argue that Jewish culture is brainier compared to the culture at large. Intellectualism is respected in Jewish culture and there is a HUGE emphasis on literacy. Girls were even taught to read Hebrew even centuries ago. There was more emphasis on boys learning it, but girls nevertheless were taught. Study of Talmud is pure hermeneutics and, in Orthodox circles at any rate, a person who can argue halacha expertly is practically regarded as a saint. In fact even in the Talmud a rabbi who could argue well was referred to as a lion, because of his intellectual strength. Compare this to other ancient cultures where militarism was respected, or even to contemporary culture where sports are worshipped above literacy or intellectualism. Or compare it to a kid being teased in school beacuse he's smart. No, not all Jews are brainy, but braininess is more accepted in Jewish culture than it might be elsewhere, so an aspie might not be quite as ostracized (and thus more likely to marry and continue his genetic line) in Jewish society.

Well en_una_isla,

I can only go by the hundreds of jewish people I have known. As for the idea of learning to read hebrew, then WHY do so many boys and girls CRAM with rabbis to learn to "read" some passages for the bar/bat mitzvah? If they knew about it for HUNDREDS of years, why was it practically DEAD until about 57 years ago!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language

Apparantly, Hebrew was deader than LATIN, but I guess religious institutes held it in as high regard as latin so it could be revived.

And Braininess IS accepted in most white cultures, china, etc.... As for the marriage, many jewish people still try to arrange marriages, etc... so you ARE right there. They do the same thing in India, by the way.

Steve