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TrainofLove
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Help me defend myself Reply with quote

OK. So a few days ago, I don't know how the convo started, but I stated to a fellow at my course that If a woman/female hit me, I would hit back in self defense, as long as the force is no more than reasonable for the purpose (this goes for either gender). I have a whole page now written down from NZ law which states this is legal. (I've only compiled this writing on paper tonight).

I was then called a woman beater, due to the sexist social stigma of "you don't hit women" even though the NZ self defense law is gender neutral and as long as the force is no more than reasonable for the purpose, it's legal if you are feeling or being threatened.

I'm now the bad guy with the Teachers/tutors and was then told that no laws in the word allow violence, or words to that matter.

Simply, is there's anything I can add to write down to strengthen my argument even more? I'm sure that all the Homosexual's getting the death penalty in foreign countries is a law promoting/legalizing violence. Please tell me if otherwise.

Any help is appreciated. I am not a woman beater, and I do not condone women beaters and every single one of them should be in jail for the horrible things they do.
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fueledbycoffee
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're fighting against thousands of years of custom. And there's a point. Women are, on average, weaker than men. Odds are, if a woman hit you, it wouldn't leave a mark. If a man hit a woman, it would do a whole lot more.

Not much defending that, sorry.
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TrainofLove
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fueledbycoffee wrote:
You're fighting against thousands of years of custom. And there's a point. Women are, on average, weaker than men. Odds are, if a woman hit you, it wouldn't leave a mark. If a man hit a woman, it would do a whole lot more.

Not much defending that, sorry.


Someone has to stand up and defend this. I feel very strongly about this and we cannot truly have male/female equality until this sexist social stigma is abolished.
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The_Walrus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you, and I think most people do.

Just point out that it is sexist to allow women to beat men simply because they're weaker.

http://www.domesticviolencelondon.nhs.uk/1-what-is-domestic-violence-/25-domestic-abuse-against-men.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men

Of course, it is not sexist to say that people should never defend themselves against attacks, but few people would claim advocate that degree of restraint.
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Jacoby
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You shouldn't hit anybody of course there is obviously a difference between beating someone up and defending yourself which all people have the right to. While women are generally weaker than men I know there are women stronger than me, does their genitalia prevent me from defending myself? There a lot of men stronger than me and there are plenty weaker too, what is the difference?
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Vigilans
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the option to escape a situation exists, always take it. Otherwise when defending oneself, use restraint, it is always better not to hit someone. But as Jacoby said there is also a big difference between beating someone up and defending oneself. Some women make a life out of robbing and assaulting men and other women, I don't see why they deserve special treatment over their male counterparts. They are equally scum
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Sweetleaf
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Help me defend myself Reply with quote

TrainofLove wrote:
OK. So a few days ago, I don't know how the convo started, but I stated to a fellow at my course that If a woman/female hit me, I would hit back in self defense, as long as the force is no more than reasonable for the purpose (this goes for either gender). I have a whole page now written down from NZ law which states this is legal. (I've only compiled this writing on paper tonight).

I was then called a woman beater, due to the sexist social stigma of "you don't hit women" even though the NZ self defense law is gender neutral and as long as the force is no more than reasonable for the purpose, it's legal if you are feeling or being threatened.

I'm now the bad guy with the Teachers/tutors and was then told that no laws in the word allow violence, or words to that matter.

Simply, is there's anything I can add to write down to strengthen my argument even more? I'm sure that all the Homosexual's getting the death penalty in foreign countries is a law promoting/legalizing violence. Please tell me if otherwise.

Any help is appreciated. I am not a woman beater, and I do not condone women beaters and every single one of them should be in jail for the horrible things they do.


I think the best thing to do would be try not to pay any mind to the crap people are giving you about it. Of course you're not a woman beater if you would hit a female in self defense..............I think that is called well self defense if a person of any gender attacks you and you hit back. I've never gotten that double standard myself I mean what are you supposed to do lay down and let someone cause you harm because they happen to be a female.

I think a good rule of thumb for everyone is if you don't want to be hit.......don't violently attack someone.
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XFilesGeek
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem wailing on someone if they hit me first, even if they're smaller.

My opinion is, if you don't want your butt handed to you, don't pick fights with people bigger than you.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is ridiculous. Let's face it, women's bodies aren't structured like men and they also tend to have less propensity for violence on average. They are actually pretty f*****g vicious when they do get mad enough to fight but if they just simply want to smack some sense into you then chances are they aren't trying to hurt you too much. That sounds like a contradiction, but my point is that it takes much less for a man to fight so when women do fight they've already crossed way more lines. Men are still the heavier hitters though so a man hitting a woman is still much worse than the other way around.

Anyways, if you wanna make a better case for your argument then you should be more conscious about the connotations behind your words rather than just how they sound on paper. The way you're going about using self-defense laws to argue against social norms comes across as dismissive. The way you deliver your argument matters as much as the argument itself. Maybe you should talk about the typical circumstances of self-defense situations themselves?
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Sweetleaf
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AceOfSpades wrote:
This is ridiculous. Let's face it, women's bodies aren't structured like men and they also tend to have less propensity for violence on average. They are actually pretty f***ing vicious when they do get mad enough to fight but if they just simply want to smack some sense into you then chances are they aren't trying to hurt you too much. That sounds like a contradiction, but my point is that it takes much less for a man to fight so when women do fight they've already crossed way more lines. Men are still the heavier hitters though so a man hitting a woman is still much worse than the other way around.


The thing is that is not true in all cases, and violence isn't a very good way to get through to someone....how would a male know whether or not the woman means harm or not if she starts swinging that could be taken as threatening. Not to mention not all males are bigger than females not all females are smaller than males. Also people react to danger on instinct if someone feels they are in danger from someone attacking them they are likely going to act quick due to fight of flight mode and all that.

Also not all males are quick to violence or anger, kind of like all females aren't slow to react in those ways.
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The_Walrus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AceOfSpades wrote:
This is ridiculous. Let's face it, women's bodies aren't structured like men and they also tend to have less propensity for violence on average. They are actually pretty f***ing vicious when they do get mad enough to fight but if they just simply want to smack some sense into you then chances are they aren't trying to hurt you too much. That sounds like a contradiction, but my point is that it takes much less for a man to fight so when women do fight they've already crossed way more lines.

I think that whilst what you say is generally right, it's just that- a broad generalisation.

There are some women out there who are nasty pieces of work and will turn to violence quite quickly. Similarly, there are men who are highly reluctant to get into a fight, even one they will win. There are women who are highly manipulative, there are men who aren't particularly strong.
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abacacus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone assaults me, I'm going to respond with whatever force is necessary. Period.

I would ask these people if they expect a woman to allow herself to be assaulted by a man, or if she should be allowed to defend herself.
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trollcatman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AceOfSpades wrote:
...but if they just simply want to smack some sense into you....


Do you really think that is a good reason to hit people? Doesn't sound very safe to me, people generally don't respond well to being hit. And do you feel the same about a man beating some sense into a woman?
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AceOfSpades
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to sound like a dick, but for Christ's sake I'm trying to say that men have the edge assuming equal physical conditioning and level of provocation, not that every single man is stronger and more aggressive than every single woman. A rule of thumb isn't supposed to be true in absolutely all cases, so there's no need to confuse general guidelines with generalizing. Even in mathematical terms averages are skewed by outliers not ruled out altogether. If you really wanna go there, I didn't say that men are stronger on average, but that women's bodies aren't structured like men's. That means even with physical conditioning on par, a man's body is structured to take more advantage of that. Not to mention testosterone's role in muscle growth. As for propensity for violence, the stats speak for themselves unless you wanna write it off as gender role conditioning which itself is a massive generalization.

trollcatman wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
...but if they just simply want to smack some sense into you....


Do you really think that is a good reason to hit people? Doesn't sound very safe to me, people generally don't respond well to being hit. And do you feel the same about a man beating some sense into a woman?
This isn't even about whether or not it's right for a woman to do that, it's about the difference between a woman trying to regulate you and a woman trying to kick your ass. Sometimes hitting someone is a physical way of communicating and other times it's about straight up hurting the other person as much as possible. For the record, no I don't think hitting your significant other is part of a healthy relationship. As for men beating women, you clearly missed this part:

AceOfSpades wrote:
Men are still the heavier hitters though so a man hitting a woman is still much worse than the other way around.
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The_Walrus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AceOfSpades wrote:
I hate to sound like a dick, but for Christ's sake I'm trying to say that men have the edge assuming equal physical conditioning and level of provocation, not that every single man is stronger and more aggressive than every single woman. A rule of thumb isn't supposed to be true in absolutely all cases, so don't take it so literally. Even in mathematical terms averages are skewed by outliers not ruled out altogether. If you really wanna go there, I didn't say that men are stronger on average, but that women's bodies aren't structured like men's. That means even with physical conditioning on par, a man's body is structured to take more advantage of that. Not to mention testosterone's role in muscle growth. As for propensity for violence, the stats speak for themselves unless you wanna write it off as gender role conditioning which itself is a massive generalization.

After your second sentence, you stopped using qualifiers like "tend" and "on average".

Nobody questions the statistics, and I'm of the opinion that testosterone has a lot to answer for. However, that doesn't mean that a woman hitting a man is any more acceptable than a man hitting a woman. Men are more likely to do large amounts of damage, true, but there is still the capacity for women to do large amounts of damage. Even a single blow from a woman can cause a man to die.
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