I don't think anyone likes me

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I'm not sure if my attempts to socialize are worth anything. Whenever I interact with people, I feel like I'm bothering them. Well, I do have friends, but if I think about that honestly, I don't think I'm their friend because they like me, but I'm their friend because they don't have too many other options. That's because, although they are very nice people, they're a bit of socially awkward nerds, too, and not exactly the "popular" type.

One could argue that our friendship is a good symbiosis, but I notice the errors in my social behavior very clearly, and I'm pretty sure that they're bothered by them, too. Apparently, they still prefer having a weird friend over having one less friend, so all parties are served, but that's a very calculating way to think of it, and I still don't like the idea of being a burden and a handful to someone.

So shouldn't I maybe retreat into isolation and deal with it? I wouldn't say "the world is better off without me", but I do think that the world is better off if I'm invisible. I could get a job that doesn't require too much human interaction, and contribute to some free software projects in my spare time. That way, I wouldn't bother anyone too much but still do something useful (in the hope that the latter outweighs the former).

I know that this sounds really miserable, but couldn't it be the best option?

Sounds like you are doing fine. Aspies need to learn "manually" how to interact smoothly with others. These friends you have now are your training partners in a sense. The good thing is that you notice your social errors - that's usually the hard part - self awareness. In time you will get better and will make new friends as a result. The worst thing you could do is stop learning/trying.
Good luck!

Vectorspace, I think what you describe is pretty typical. I think the aspies' existential dilemma is that we need people to survive, but we can't deal with them. Under these circumstances, all we can do is our best.

I think we all have to find some way to compensate for our dilemma--find a niche for ourselves. I have found two: My home is in a place far removed from other other people, and I feel I can be myself here. The second is I have developed a rich interior life--something nobody can take from me. When I tell my normal friends that life is ultimately lived inside our heads, I don't think they fully comprehend what I'm talking about, and as social creatures, that's okay. But I have found this to be important to me, since I am anything but a social creature. I think ultimately that our lives have to be lived within since we are so inept in the social world. It's about being our own best friends, but much more.

The best option is the one that brings you the most happiness and ability to contribute whatever you feel the need to contribute to the world. Not many people can live in isolation and be happy, but nobody can tell you what's right for you - you'll have to figure it out yourself.

I'm not sure if it's a social skills issue. Yes, my social skills are improving. I'm learning the social conventions, thereby reducing the number of "accidents". That's certainly an important thing, but I'm not sure if it makes me more likable.

In the past years, I had the problem of being perceived as arrogant even though I didn't actually do anything bad. Now I stop myself from saying anything that might be understood that way. So I've become very silent and kind of a doormat. But sometimes, I still come across as arrogant, so maybe I'm an arrogant doormat now – which is two unappealing features combined.

If you're a likable person, you'll be forgiven a faux pas every now and then. I know that many Aspies are likable, but I'm not. I usually try to be friendly and I'm quite sure that I don't hurt anyone, so people probably don't dislike me specifically, but they don't like me, either.

Sure, I can still improve my small-talk skills and things like that. But at a certain point, one's character is more important than one's small-talk skills. And while I don't know what exactly it is, there must be something terribly wrong with my character, and I don't know if it's possible to fix that without pretending to be someone else.

Well, you have identified the main issue, and that is saying things that could be perceived as being arrogant. It sounds as though this is simply a problem stemming from an inability to judge whether or not the phrasing of something, or what you're actually saying is appropriate. This is a common issue for Aspies, and not an intrensic part of your personality. You should continue to work on this issue and apologise if you accidentally say something that makes you sound pompous or arrogant.

As other posters in this thread have said, giving up on socialising is probably the worst thing you could do right now.

Give yourself a break--you are 23 (which may seem old to you, but isn't really). I am NT (on Wrong Planet because of my daughter) and I was perceived as "arrogant" all through my twenties, even though I tried hard not to be. Other people's perception of arrogance may have to do with things that are not really arrogant at all--having a rich vocabulary, for example (my daughter gets into trouble for this all the time). If you can avoid actually being arrogant, and if you continue to work on your social skills (which unfortunately does involve continuing to interact with people), you will end up in a different place. Hang in there.

Thank you, but I don't think arrogance is the main problem here.

I have very good math and computer skills (especially in terms of grades), so whenever I talk about anything related to that, I'm at the risk of bragging. A few weeks ago, someone asked me: "I need a program to draw some figures for me thesis – but keep in mind that I'm bad at computers." I recommended one, and I may have said "Is this easy enough for you?" in an unfortunate manner. But I don't think this faux pas was that bad, and I don't see any actual way I could have avoided it.

Minor arrogance is forgiven easily if you're an otherwise interesting person to talk to. I know some much more arrogant people who have more friends than me. If I want people to like me, I have to offer something. All those "positive Aspie qualities" that you read about everywhere ("loyalty", "honesty", "integrity", "tolerance", etc.) seem to boil down to "not intentionally doing bad things to others". But this is not not actually a positive quality but the lack of a negative quality. It's a reason for people not to hate you, but it's not a reason for people to like you.

On "Love&Dating", I often read phrases like "I love my Aspies boyfriend because he doesn't do [insert bad thing here] like everybody else". By that logic, you could also fall in love with a rock, which doesn't do anything bad, either.

I often wonder: "Is there any reason why people should like me?", and I fail to find any. When you wander around the math & computer science department at the university, you will find a number of people who are just as socially inept as me. Though I don't find any specifically negative qualities about them, I don't like them either. If one of them was a copy of me, I would certainly avoid him.

I finally figured out why the people I interact with are only very dysfunctional people. It is because I can be a good listener (because I have nothing to offer that anyone wants to hear). Regular people I just met will start out friendly with me and by the end of the interaction, they are no longer happy/friendly.

Your post is well written and interesting, also very poignant.

That makes sense. But I don't think I'm interested in friendships based on pity, either way around.

Shouldn't "pleasant behavior in a conversation" be something that can be learned? Right now, I'm only good at realizing that most of what I want to say is inappropriate, so I often don't participate at all, because I can't think of anything that would actually contribute to the discussion.

Vectorspace, I think you have a problem socializing with others, because your intelligence level is higher than most people. People tell me all the time this is a problem for me, too, so don't worry. It means that most people aren't equipped to dealing with thoughtful types of people, because they are easily intimidated and frustrated. I am isolated myself. I live in my room all the time, don't have a driver's license and just graduated from school, but at the moment I'm waiting for what life has to offer.

Based on what you wrote - positive qualities being a lack of negative qualities and, therefore, a reason for people to not dislike you - but not a reason for them to like you, you seem like a logical thinker. Probably 99% of the people I know wouldn't recognize it this way. Aspies, I believe, want to make friends with others (some of them), but also need time to themselves, especially because they are usually reclusive. I have a couple of friends, both of whom are online, but it's sometimes difficult for me to reply to their messages; it takes me a while to come up with an appropriate response. (Also, I need time to 'refuel' myself after extended periods of socialization).

What I'm trying to say here is: you are not alone. There are other Aspies (and NT's) with the same burden. What makes you a stronger person is getting through the hoops. Even if you have a difficulty socializing with people for the rest of your life, it is not a reflection of you, but them. Keep being yourself. I enjoy the way you word things, because it's a level above what most people can comprehend.

Then you know freedom.

I used to think that until I asked my friends and they said I was the nicest person they know

the majority of my life was spent in a "not liked by anybody" mode. it is survivable.

I used to have this attitude, too, but I've given it up because it seems useless to me.

There is some evidence that my intelligence is above-average, even among university students. The acknowledgement that I receive for my intellectual abilities is in fact my only source of self-esteem. But this source is weak, and it contradicts my character. I'm not a competitive person hunting for distinction; I'm a social person; I like being friendly to people (no matter if they're more or less intelligent than me), and I value affection/sympathy much more than admiration.

Besides, I know a number of people of equal or higher intelligence than me. Some of them are jerks and some of them are just as socially inept as me, but there is a fair number of people left with whom I should, in theory, be able so socialize. In fact, we do get along quite well, but we hardly ever talk about anything other than math; there is no real "connection".

This doesn't have to mean they don't like you, it can simply mean they have less of a need to connect to other people. This is very apparent in this forum also, there are those who are looking for a deeper connection in which you bond outside of exchanging bare necessities, and then there are those who don't see a point in talking or doing anything together if you don't exchange information relevant to one of their projects (and I suspect that the latter group is larger among the smart people).