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Tyri0n
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Aspie Entitlement Syndrome Reply with quote

I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

In this site's L&D, the theme is similar: "we feel entitled to have a hot girlfriend/boyfriend without doing anything to make sure you bring value to the table."

Why is this?


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cubedemon6073
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Parents vs. Adults with AS Reply with quote

Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?


They see themselves as fine the way they are and see themselves as being true to themselves. Therein lies the problem, IMHO. One can be true to themselves but within reason. There is a fine line between demonstrating respect and being themselves.


Last edited by cubedemon6073 on Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm always looking for new and inventive ways to improve myself, I think it's important.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Parents vs. Adults with AS Reply with quote

Tyri0n wrote:
I've noticed a difference in the attitude of most parents of kids with autism, as well as a few adults with autism, and a great many adults with autism.

While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff. "We don't want treatment; we don't care about self-improvement; we just want free stuff" -- typical attitude on Aspies for Freedom.

Why is this?

I don't think people owe me free stuff. And I care very much about self improvement and work very very hard at it every day, I don't know what Aspies for Freedom is, I just found out I was Aspie a year and a half ago. But I see that there are lots of people who have this sense of "entitlement." I see it with a lot of NT kids and a lot with people of my particular associated ethnic group, especially the younger ones. I am not comfortable saying which group that is publicly, but it doesn't really matter. But I think this whole "entitlement" stuff is not right and I don't like it one bit no matter who it is.

Now I know that as a newly discovered high functioning Aspie who is over 38, I have had a lot of difficulty navigating through life and having to learn to live in many societies since we moved a lot and I have had to do it completely alone, I have never not had Autism and I also developed Misophonia at around ten but there was never any kind of diagnosis for me, no special help school, no programs, no friends or support group who knew what this was, there was absolutely nothing, I really was completely alone. All I had was punishment when I acted weird. And it has been that way for me all the way til now. And I have worked very hard to have the things I do have. So having said that., if someone offered me free stuff, I would be very glad to get it. And even if I wasn't Aspie, I still love free stuff but I certainly don't feel entitled to it.


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BirdInFlight
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that premise of yours sound, though? I don't think one can make sweeping generalizations like that. Some adult autists may be as you've observed. Others -- who maybe don't stick out so easily to your awareness -- may not.

But even if I play along and say okay, your observation holds true -- well perhaps those adults have come to the conclusion that after trying all their lives to fit in or improve things, it hasn't "worked" and now they just accept that they have to deal with the cards as they stand. In a sense, there's nothing wrong with that. What some may see as apathy can also be seen as the wisdom of accepting you are what you are and you HAVE tried things to improve, some less successful than others.

Think about how, too, a child still has a chance for very early help/treatment to at least turn the volume down on some of the symptoms.

Present-day adults on the spectrum likely did not get early intervention and quite truly the "wiring was set" to a greater extent than the children of today, whom research has shown that early diagnosis and assistance can go a long way to helping set up the child with a more functional future.

I still don't think your sweeping generalization of "most adult Aspie's don't want to improve, they just want everything for free" is too wide an assumption to be fair or true. Lots of people do not want handouts no matter the difficulties.

And as for those who do rely to any degree on financial assistance and other free assistance -- even then.....maybe they really do need it? There's nothing wrong with that either. There IS a genuine need for many people on the spectrum because NT life IS genuinely too difficult. Not everyone needing all the help they can get is a no-good scrounger, let it be remembered.

I've noticed a lot of adult-Asperger posts on here where the person says their pursuit of a formal diagnosis is NOT so that they can apply for benefits and handouts -- they often already have jobs and careers! -- but instead quite simply to get closure on struggles that have plagued them all their lives, to get an explanation, that helps both them and others in their lives to understand better what's been going on all their lives. Clarity and that relief of sheer discovery of "Why?" is what many adults are content with, it seems to me. That's certainly what it would be for me.

.
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skibum
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BirdInFlight wrote:


I've noticed a lot of adult-Asperger posts on here where the person says their pursuit of a formal diagnosis is NOT so that they can apply for benefits and handouts -- .
And so what if they were? Would that be so bad? I think it's cruel to say to someone who has spent his or her entire life, 40, 50, 60 years struggling alone with no help at all, with no explanation for why they went through and still go through every day, you don't deserve benefits that we now give freely to anyone who comes along and gets diagnosed as a child. What if we said that to a blind person? would we say oh that person is just seeking a diagnosis so that they can have access to services and because they are just doing it at an older age that means they don't deserve it? Is help only a privilege reserved for the young? I think if anybody actually deserves a break, it is the older undiagnosed Autist.

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Ettina
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
While the former is very interested in finding ways to improve autistic symptoms and improve lives, the latter typically is not interested in self-improvement and just believes that society owes them free stuff.


I don't feel entitled to anything more than what NTs feel entitled to. I just won't settle for less than that.

The kind of 'self-improvement' society typically wants from AS people is akin to telling a gay person they need to become straight.

I want to be a better me, not become someone else.
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Ettina
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I think everyone is entitled to free stuff. In my opinion, a good society is one that takes care of their citizens. Basic needs should never be earned. Food, health care, housing - those should be available to everyone, no matter their abilities or economic status.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ettina wrote:
And I think everyone is entitled to free stuff. In my opinion, a good society is one that takes care of their citizens. Basic needs should never be earned. Food, health care, housing - those should be available to everyone, no matter their abilities or economic status.
I agree.
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skibum
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to make a blanket statement here but I will venture to say if someone was diagnosed as a child and has been able to get help with Autism or Asperger's and who has had parents who actually knew what it was and that they had it, I can't imagine that they can understand this feeling. Or maybe they can but I am not sure. One feeling which I know I really struggled with especially after I developed Misophonia is why do the other kids in my family always get help with their issues, like allergies or whatever and I not only don't get help for my issues but I get punished? This is an extraordinary burden to have to carry and deal with as a child especially when you are trying to deal with your Aspie and Misophonic issues. This kind of thing can really screw with your mind.

As an adult I tried several times to get help from social services because I could not hold a job and I just needed a little help to get by while I was getting myself together. I am a pretty educated person and I have had many jobs. The only reason I can't hold a job is because I tend to get fired for things like being slower than the others and not getting the work done fast enough. So I started my own career where I became a private contractor in a very competitive field which happened to be one of my interests and did exceptionally well for a good while and actually made a decent wage. But I also have another health issue along with my Autism and I became sick from that so I just needed a little time off to get myself together. All I wanted was to qualify for food stamps so that I could buy food in the interim. They told me at social services that if I wanted help I would I would have to go take a job training class like how to flip burgers at MCDonald's, I told the guy that my education level was higher his and that my job, which I created, paid twice as much as his and if I had the physical ability to work at that time I would still be working.

But I never qualified for food stamps or anything else because if you look at me, I don't look sick, and I am High Functioning so no one wants to qualify me for any benefits or services.

So it really hurts me a lot when people say things like "People who just discover they are Aspie as adults just try to get a diagnosis so that they can get free benefits and handouts." Even if we wanted to do that which I have no problem with, we don't tend to get anything except more frustration and disrespect and harsh treatment when we try. And I don't know why anyone would not want us to get help. Don't you think we deserve it?

Sorry OP. I kind of went off on a tangent here based on another poster's comment which I highlighted in my last post.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ettina wrote:
And I think everyone is entitled to free stuff. In my opinion, a good society is one that takes care of their citizens. Basic needs should never be earned. Food, health care, housing - those should be available to everyone, no matter their abilities or economic status.


Pray tell, if everyone is entitled to "free stuff", and no one should ever have to provide for their own basic needs, just who is going to pay for it all?
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Kylyssa
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the OP has confused an inability to ever get to the point that one can blend seamlessly with the NT world with not wanting to.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skibum wrote:
BirdInFlight wrote:


I've noticed a lot of adult-Asperger posts on here where the person says their pursuit of a formal diagnosis is NOT so that they can apply for benefits and handouts -- .
And so what if they were? Would that be so bad? I think it's cruel to say to someone who has spent his or her entire life, 30, 40, 50, 60 years struggling alone with no help at all, with no explanation for why they went through and still go through every day what they went through, you don't deserve benefits that we now give freely to anyone who comes along and gets diagnosed as a child. What if we said that to a blind person? would we say oh that person is just seeking a diagnosis so that they can have access to services and because they are just doing it at an older age that means they don't deserve it? Is help only a privilege reserved for the young? I think if anybody actually deserves a break, it is the older undiagnosed Autist.


Um...hello? Did you actually not see the paragraph that immediately preceded the one you've quoted?

I also said, and I quote myself here, using bold font for the important parts you've overlooked:

"And as for those who do rely to any degree on financial assistance and other free assistance -- even then.....maybe they really do need it? There's nothing wrong with that either. There IS a genuine need for many people on the spectrum because NT life IS genuinely too difficult. Not everyone needing all the help they can get is a no-good scrounger, let it be remembered.

You are accusing me of saying an insulting thing to people who get a diagnosis for purpose of applying for assistance when I ACTUALLY SAID that there IS A LEGITIMATE NEED FOR THAT TOO.

You misinterpreted my post which was IN DEFENCE OF EVERYONE, I defended both those who need financial services genuinely, and I defended those who happen to simply say it hadn't crossed their mind, they just want to know at last what it is they've struggled with.

And by the way, again to illustrate that you completely misunderstood what I was saying and took my words out of context, I AM one of those older undiagnosed people who could probably seriously need a little bit of help now that I've struggled through a fcking hellish life trying to make it on my own. I'm 51 and have had no help, assistance, acknowledgement and compassion at all and it's been no picnic, and yes I deserve some.

THAT'S THE POINT i WAS ACTUALLY MAKING. Except you seized upon one fragment and thought I was saying something else.

I'm actually ON YOUR SIDE but you seem to be just looking for something to feel insulted about and your reading comprehension went out the window. Read my post again without skipping bits. I was defending against the OP's disgusting view of people who need the help just like YOU are!!!!

Quote:
I think if anybody actually deserves a break, it is the older undiagnosed Autist.


You're talking to one.

.


Last edited by BirdInFlight on Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:04 pm; edited 5 times in total
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babybird
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got loads of free stuff from where I used to work. We all did. there was no discrimination as to who got it or not. mind you it was first come first serve.
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BirdInFlight
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skibum wrote:


Sorry OP. I kind of went off on a tangent here based on another poster's comment which I highlighted in my last post.


Yes, and you completely and utterly, 100 per cent read my post incorrectly.

See my other reply to you.
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