2 Types of people with Aspergers...

Post Reply New Topic

I have known I have had Aspergers for almost 8 years now. Over the last decade or so, it seems that Autism/Aspergers has really exploded with recognition and diagnosis across the USA. I was not diagnosed until I was 22 years old, even though I have Aspergers quite severely.

To me, it seems like there are two generalized sub-types of people with Aspergers, and I think the split between these two main groups has huge implications regarding factors like our prospects for employment, and our quality of life. I think one sub-group of Aspergians has far rosier prospects for success in life.

Let me explain what I mean.... After I was booted from the Army for having Aspergers, I went to apply for Disability. When I went to my interview, the interviewer kept insisting that I, despite having Aspergers, was completely employable. He cited example after example of Introverted-types of men he knew who were able to memorize Pi to 1000 places, recite the periodic table, perform calculus, customize cars, etc, etc.... He insisted he knew LOTS of men who were probably at a similar level of functioning to me, who were able to succeed as engineers, computer programmers, math professors, etc....

I have no doubt that lots of men with Aspergers have talents in these areas, and can succeed if they find their niche. I read the book by John Elder Robinson, a man who had the natural ability to manipulate wiring and machines with almost no training. Other guys with Aspergers seem to have a Rain-Man-esque aptitude at math or science, and they can naturally hold down a career in a technological field. I am very happy for them, or for anybody for whom this may be the case.

However, for me, I am naturally the OPPOSITE of this. My great skills have always been in areas like History. I am so bad at math that I can barely comprehend basic Algebra. I am also not very "hands-on," and I am clueless around machines, tools, etc... And unfortunately for someone like me, companies don't exactly line up to hurl job offers at people who know all of the Vice-Presidents. If I had the aptitude to build rockets or computers in my garage with no formal training, the story may be different.

At the time, what I only just managed to impart to my interviewer was that my "Special Interests" aren't the things that translate into profitable skills. As much as I would LIKE to do something like be a history professor, my ability to understand Math is so abysmal that I struggle in the other classes I would need to complete to even think about such a degree....

So I really see the clear divide.... One sub-group of people seems to have a strong aptitude with numbers and sciences, and the other sub-group with words and social-sciences. If you are good at math and science-based topics, then you seem to have a good chance of being "in the clear" for success. If you like English and History, then you could get stuck in an awful purgatory as there is no real market or demand for your interests. It sucks, but that is the case. I have no ability to carry on in an occupation I have no interest in, even if it promises to pay well. In any case, my competence with things like machines and mechanics is so low to the point where i would be a massive liability in any technical occupation.



I am sorry if anyone else has brought up this topic before, but this is just something I have noticed. I have had a few people in the past say things to me like "you should be a scientist, you should be a mechanic," without them really realizing just how dismal I would actually be in such an occupation.

I have a simple question.

If you're so employable, why were you dismissed from the military?

The person you spoke to who tried to lump Aspies in with "introverted types" was obviously getting into an area they're not qualified to speak on.

I'd appeal this decision if I were you.

Oh, and just so you know, there are plenty of people on the autism spectrum who have no "super powers". Not everyone is good at either this or that.

Most people seem to think I am employable because I outwardly look normal. People realize I am weird and mal-functioning once they get to know me. I also have no natural intuition whatsoever for machines. Even if someone puts a gadget like a walkie-talkie in my hands, I am totally clueless with it unless I get specifically shown every button and feature. I am very "slow on the draw" with all practical things..... (I think it is my thick frontal lobes).

Reasons like this are why I have not been able to hold down a job even as things like a cashier or a security guard.

I am also very socially clueless and people rather seem to flee from me like the plague after 8 minutes of talking to me.

My AS on the whole is a massive liability.

I have seen and heard many examples of "success stories" regarding people with AS, but I can't recall ever seeing a case where an individual's success WASN'T predicated on their technical skills.

As for me, I may well have gone on to college and been a great history professor, or something of this nature. However, my skills in the other subjects were so piss-poor to the degree that I couldn't prove I was "well-rounded" enough to get past the basic classes and move on to those high-levels.


Sorry for the rant..... Yes, my disability interview was several years ago, but I've since resolved that issue.

Last edited by WA5p on 03 Feb 2014, 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Absolutely correct. I also had an interest in teaching at one time, but I could never have graduated college with my abysmal math skills. I got astonishingly lucky to have fallen into a career while I was still in high school, that allowed me to work alone in a closed room, making up jokes, writing commercials, playing records and talking to myself - and even then, I couldn't go more than 15-18 months without getting fired. Once that industry dried up, thanks to the desktop computer making downsizing and automation simple, I was screwed. Another Aspergian that I worked with in that industry committed suicide when he could no longer get work at the only thing he knew how to do well.

OTOH, the neurotypical types managed to segue into other jobs, often with employers they had socially networked with while still in their first career. They became car salesmen, store managers, some even started their own businesses, because they had the social skills to get the assistance they needed. For me, there were no old friends in downtown offices I could call for good-ole-boy favors.

What's worse is, even the programs that are supposedly in place to help the disabled retrain for new careers are not equipped to understand or help those with autism. They just cannot wrap their heads around a disability they can't see and don't have the training to comprehend.

And in spite of all that, I didn't qualify for Disability until I 'aged into' the proper classification. Even the government recognizes that after a certain age, you're not likely to be hired, no matter how talented or experienced you may be.

All I can recommend, WA5p, is that you find a sympathetic mental health counselor and a good Social Security claims attorney and go from there.



I once got fired from a job after 48 hours, because the alarm went off both nights after I had locked up and gone home. They claimed I was setting it wrong, but I had taken step-by-step notes when the manager showed it to me the first day and after the first night's fiasco, I showed him my notes and went through it again - he agreed I was doing it correctly, but the second night it happened again and the management swore it was my fault. I never found out if it kept happening after I was gone.

WA5p,

I agree entirely. But I would say the divide is even deeper. It's between the "lucky/marketable skill" people and the "unlucky/unmarketable" skill people. It's not just about math (although you are right that techie people have it easy).

And despite the stereotype, most of us Aspies do not have savant superpowers. Even those of us who, say, have higher than average I.Q.s that doesn't matter one bit when you lose your job. As Willard said, the NTs take a layoff and then they smile and don't get depressed (not all but most of them) and then they bounce back like little happy rubber balls -- and get another job.

Meanwhile, we Aspies remain unemployed for one month and then another and another, because we are in shock and don't know where to look and we don't know how to network. It's a very real disability. I've had about 3 years total in my life of unemployment. It wasn't a happy time, and no one (including me) understood what was wrong with me.

WA5p, I hope you are on even footing now and that, maybe, you might finish your college degree and then...I don't know, but something that will grant you fulfillment. Peace.

^ Thanks guys.... Yeah, the social-networking component seems to be a HUGE aspect of getting (and keeping) jobs. As I have AS, I have almost no friends or social-networks, so it is very hard for me to get opportunities that come from acquaintances.... (basically what was said above). As my social circle is so small, my opportunities are so small. I know my family and friends of my father, but that is basically it....

Yeah, to reiterate, most of the success stories for people with AS I hear about are for "techies." I can't really identify with their successes. It is sort of like comparing apples to oranges.


The thing that I hate the most about my situation is that I am NOT lazy.... I actually WANT to work, and I'd be very happy even just digging ditches or something like this.... I don't even mind dealing with people. My problem is that my incompetence with machines and moving-parts makes me so unconfident whenever I am thrust into a work-situation, and I am expected to quickly master complex components of a job. I just feel "paralyzed" and overwhelmed when I am confronted with technology or working parts, even if it is just a touch-screen on a register, or a truck I am required to drive. Pretty much every entry-level job I have gone into has had a vast array of complex skills that I was expected to pick up on very quickly.

Let me illustrate an example.... A few years ago, a relative suggested that I cut lawns to make money, and he told me I could borrow his lawn-mowers and weed-eaters to get started, and use his trailer to haul the equipment. These were high-powered mowers with 48 inch width and powerful engines. I liked the idea of cutting lawns in theory, and I was eager to get started.......... However, I felt overwhelmed just trying to drive around a clumsy and awkward trailer, and I could not even do essential things like reverse it that would enable me to even get to the yards I wanted to go to. Most of my mental energy was fearfully spent trying not to wreck the trailer, rather than focusing on efficiently cutting yards.

With the mowers, my relative just ASSUMED that I would naturally be able to do things like fix the belt or change the oil. When I got out to cutting the yards, however, after a few times, I started having to do things like change the oil, sharpen the blades, or reattach the rubber belt to the gears (when it slipped off).... After doing these yards, it was clear to me that I could not make all of the "quick-fixes" I needed on the equipment to actually be out there and cut lawns independently. Whenever I had a "situation" or an equipment malfunction, I had to call him out for help.... Long-story, short, it wasn't like I could just go, start cutting lawns, and be happy and productive (even though I desperately wanted to).... My lack of aptitude with mowers was so bad that I turned out to be a giant liability (as I wasn't doing things like changing the oil often enough)....

I tried to learn, but my fundamental understanding and my "common sense" just wasn't there. I was trying to grasp concepts that were simply beyond my depth.

In every job I have been in, the amount of "extra instruction" I needed on equipment was such that I was a liability and even a hazard. I WANTED to work, even badly, but the basic brain-power I needed to master the basic skills just wasn't present. But no one understood that because they assumed that since I was so smart in my "Special Interests," that that knowledge would naturally translate into great ability at other new skills they would try and teach me.

Last edited by WA5p on 03 Feb 2014, 1:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

^^^^ I could never be a waiter, a cashier or a barista at a coffee place (I tried and was fired after 2 weeks).

It really does suck, doesn't it? It's important that you find a mentor who can help you plan out some strategy for your life. You're very young. In your 20s is still very, very young!

Have you considered studying abroad? In many countries you start studying history as an undergraduate without any requirement to take other classes. After three years you may get a bachelors degree in history and after four to five years a masters in history, which you may follow up with a PhD in history. In many other countries it is also cheaper to study than in the US.

Wait! I am caught on the part where you say you we're kicked out of the military due to Asperger's. Seriously? That f****n sucks, I had set plans to join the Air Force during my second semester so I could get right in after I graduated college.
My mother once told me not to tell them of my diagnosis, but lying is only going to get me in huge trouble as all they have to do is look at my medical records...

To address the topic, yeah, I would be one the huge into Math and Science. Currently in school for an Information Technology (Networking) degree.

In addition, I very much dislike History and despite being an excellent writer I stuggle in an English class (due to lack of passion). So I totally understand the whole passion thing.

And to be totally honest I am not fully passionate about the degree I am pursuing. I'd much, much, much rather pursue music, but it's best I have money first so I can express to the utmost without worrying about record labels, sales, etc. I would never create music for money, therefore I chose a career field that I am at least not dispassionate about (that could very well capture my passionate), and could bring in enough money (to hopefully fuel my special interest too).

Not sure if I have Asperger's, but figured I'd post anyway.

I seem to be quite good with maths and science (compared to others here my maths sucks), but I tend to fall towards the social sciences side of things (hence my love of anything psychology related). I prefer to use words and consider myself to be somewhat decent with my use of them, but by all means I'm no pro. I'm not sure whether this is because I always found maths boring and thus never bothered with it or not, but generally I love any type of science, especially if I don't have to memorized/learn millions of formulas. It's a double edged sword however, as one of my most favourite things to study is astrophysics, but I can't be bothered putting in the effort to learn the actual, difficult physics side of it. XD

I'm terrible when it comes to visual/mechanical things; my visual spatial skills are beyond horrible.

I love poetry and classic literature, so believe me, I feel your problem. Luckily I managed to get a science degree (not a very good grade admittedly) though I totally suck at lab stuff. My mum suggested teaching, but I have trouble remembering names and getting people to listen to me. And I'm a terrible speaker. I would have loved to teach English, but I don't have the qualifications for that.

Well, let's get back to WA5p's stuff here....
I think you could finish your college degree somewhere. I mean, just get the sheet of paper. Then there is graduate school. At the very least, in a Ph.D. program, you'd get stipends and so on so you wouldn't have to worry about money. And there are people out there with really horrible math abilities but they got through college with some lower level course. I really think there ought to be a way around it. You only have one life, so you can't just throw in the towel. Especially since you are so very young.
Ask an older person for help.

[humor]

There are two types of people with AS...

...those that KNOW they have AS...

...and those who THINK they have AS.

[/humor]

I am a math/science person.

I would speculate that ASD people in math and science enjoy the order because their brains want order.

Math = a descriptive language that is ordered within itself
Science = finding ordering about the world

Both of these subjects bring enjoyment to my brain, because I am engaged in ordering.

I think this idea has some real potential, because schools in some other countries may not have the same fetish for being "well rounded" as we seem to have. For starters, people who tend to be really good in one particular subject, tend not to be "well rounded."

I'm not that sure about the cheaper part because they're likely to think (all) Americans are rich.

=======================================

In a speech, Temple Grandin said people on the spectrum generally have one of three cognitive orientations, with some overlap:

1) abstract thinkers, like math or music or chess,

2) story / narrative thinkers, and

3) visual thinkers like herself.

I'm between story / narrative and abstract. I have gotten both A's and F's in math classes. If I can really put the time into it, as if I'm preparing to explain it to someone else ('at this point the graph explodes upward'), and there's enough content to bite into then I tend to do well. Plus, the rest of my life can't be tasked out, and it needs to feel safe enough that I can prepare to lose myself in these topics, at least for a while.

Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 03 Feb 2014, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, British universities are cheap for those within the Empire, but expensive for those of us in the U.S. I found this out the hard way after I was accepted into the University of Leeds (to study philosophy of science), so I decided not to go.