Ground art in Pakistan to challenge conscience of pilots

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thomas81
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14 Apr 2014, 10:42 am

I thought this was genious.

http://www.vice.com/read/this-giant-art ... el-empathy


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Raptor
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14 Apr 2014, 12:37 pm

It's a waste of resources is what it is.
"The piece was left there [until the villagers] decided to use the fabric for roofing and other useful purposes," Afridi wrote. It was—and this is not a criticism at all—printed on material the villagers needed anyway. "The art was always meant to be utilized and not discarded after it was photographed," he continued.

If the Pakistanis would just take the gloves off and deal with the Taliban themselves we wouldn't need to bother with drone strikes.
Maybe we should just do away with drone strikes over northern Pakistan and instead invade and occupy the damn place and see if they like that any better.


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Gromit
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14 Apr 2014, 4:01 pm

Raptor wrote:
If the Pakistanis would just take the gloves off and deal with the Taliban themselves we wouldn't need to bother with drone strikes.

Say Cambodia or Laos wants Kissinger extradited for war crimes. Or Pakistan wants Bush or Obama for the extrajudicial killing of a toddler. Because that's what it is, no matter what euphemisms it's dressed up in. Extradition is refused. Would you say those countries would be justified in applying your argument and send drones? If not, why not?

Raptor wrote:
Maybe we should just do away with drone strikes over northern Pakistan and instead invade and occupy the damn place and see if they like that any better.

I think we are unlikely to agree on the moral issues involved, so here is something pragmatic that might interest you. The jihadis first got funding and training to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. The expense hastened the collapse of the Soviet Union. You think it couldn't happen to the USA? What are the costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars, compared to, say, the credit crunch? Can the country afford another war?

I also get the impression that Pakistan's military and its intelligence service already has a proportion of people who like the Taliban better than the USA. The assassinations by drone are already increasing resentment. Would you like to make sure the next generation is overwhelmingly hostile to the USA? At some point, they will be the people with access to Pakistan's nukes. Should an American patriot advocate such a policy?



Tequila
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14 Apr 2014, 5:23 pm

Raptor wrote:
If the Pakistanis would just take the gloves off and deal with the Taliban themselves we wouldn't need to bother with drone strikes.


The TTP/Taliban are dealing with the Pakistanis, not the other way round.

From what I hear, it's more likely that Pakistan will become a Taliban-style theocracy than the Talibani bastards being put in the grave.

The Pakistanis are capitulating to the Taliban.



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14 Apr 2014, 5:30 pm

Gromit wrote:
Raptor wrote:
If the Pakistanis would just take the gloves off and deal with the Taliban themselves we wouldn't need to bother with drone strikes.

Say Cambodia or Laos wants Kissinger extradited for war crimes. Or Pakistan wants Bush or Obama for the extrajudicial killing of a toddler. Because that's what it is, no matter what euphemisms it's dressed up in. Extradition is refused. Would you say those countries would be justified in applying your argument and send drones? If not, why not?

With their comparatively piddly military assets, they're hardly in a position to demand anything from us.

Gromit wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Maybe we should just do away with drone strikes over northern Pakistan and instead invade and occupy the damn place and see if they like that any better.

I think we are unlikely to agree on the moral issues involved, so here is something pragmatic that might interest you. The jihadis first got funding and training to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. The expense hastened the collapse of the Soviet Union. You think it couldn't happen to the USA? What are the costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars, compared to, say, the credit crunch? Can the country afford another war?

I also get the impression that Pakistan's military and its intelligence service already has a proportion of people who like the Taliban better than the USA. The assassinations by drone are already increasing resentment. Would you like to make sure the next generation is overwhelmingly hostile to the USA? At some point, they will be the people with access to Pakistan's nukes. Should an American patriot advocate such a policy?

I bet we have more nukes and they know it.


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salamandaqwerty
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14 Apr 2014, 6:51 pm

GENIUS!! !! !
Thanks for the link thomas81


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Gromit
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16 Apr 2014, 1:33 pm

Raptor wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Would you say those countries would be justified in applying your argument and send drones? If not, why not?

With their comparatively piddly military assets, they're hardly in a position to demand anything from us.

That wasn't my question. Not even close. I asked whether another country would be, in your opinion, justified. I ask your opinion about the legal and ethical issues of another country assassinating people in the USA, the way the USA does now in other countries. I am not asking whether that is a practical option for other countries right now.

Raptor wrote:
I bet we have more nukes and they know it.

If military power were such a reliable deterrent, don't you think the Taliban would have either kicked Al Quaida out of Afghanistan before 9/11, or delivered them up to the USA in a nice bundle immediately after? I think the non-nuclear discrepancy in military power between the Taliban and the USA was greater than the nuclear discrepancy between Pakistan and the USA is now. Telling them "we know where you live and we have a bigger stick" didn't work before. Why should it work when those guys have the chance to do some real damage?



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16 Apr 2014, 8:18 pm

Gromit wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Gromit wrote:
Would you say those countries would be justified in applying your argument and send drones? If not, why not?

With their comparatively piddly military assets, they're hardly in a position to demand anything from us.

That wasn't my question.

Well, that was my answer.

Gromit wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I bet we have more nukes and they know it.

If military power were such a reliable deterrent, don't you think the Taliban would have either kicked Al Quaida out of Afghanistan before 9/11, or delivered them up to the USA in a nice bundle immediately after? I think the non-nuclear discrepancy in military power between the Taliban and the USA was greater than the nuclear discrepancy between Pakistan and the USA is now. Telling them "we know where you live and we have a bigger stick" didn't work before. Why should it work when those guys have the chance to do some real damage?

Military power is just fine if applied generously enough.


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16 Apr 2014, 8:21 pm

What runs military power is the blood of soldiers.Mostly shed for oil.


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Raptor
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16 Apr 2014, 8:33 pm

/\ No, it runs on lots of fuel.


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16 Apr 2014, 8:37 pm

Yeah,you have to keep the oil flowing with blood.Can't drill without it.Say,that should be the new Republican slogan.


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16 Apr 2014, 8:40 pm

Yeah right, whatever. I put my time in so call me a war monger.
:roll:


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salamandaqwerty
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16 Apr 2014, 8:46 pm

The fuel for war is the greed and lust for power of pathetic cowards, all those who make grand speeches on the need to kill and the justifications of murder and war should be given a gun and stain their own hands red. Let they who crave the spoils of war be its soldiers, let them know the fear and horror they so willingly send others to.


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Misslizard
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16 Apr 2014, 8:48 pm

Don't try and play that card with me,I didn't put time in,but my family always has.I see young men coming home f****d up,go to the VA try and try to get help,yeah,whatever,no help.And what did their time served accomplish?What did your time accomplish?Tell me your great victory?I can tell you my Dads,what was yours?
My Dad had severe PTSD,don't try to BS me.


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salamandaqwerty
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16 Apr 2014, 8:53 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Don't try and play that card with me,I didn't put time in,but my family always has.I see young men coming home f**** up,go to the VA try and try to get help,yeah,whatever,no help.And what did their time served accomplish?What did your time accomplish?Tell me your great victory?I can tell you my Dads,what was yours?
My Dad had severe PTSD,don't try to BS me.


Hear, hear!


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16 Apr 2014, 9:07 pm

Image


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