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khaoz
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17 Apr 2014, 12:25 am

Do you believe there are aliens from other planets, solar systems or even universes that are aware of our existence? Do you believe we are being observed by life from space? Or by aliens on earth that we are not aware of? Why do people on earth have this idea or concept that any alien must resemble human beings, even in the slightest ways, such as having limbs, or visable sensory intake sources, similar to our eyes, ears and nose. Would aliens necessarily have to need some form of nutritional intake similar to ours in order to survive?



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17 Apr 2014, 12:51 am

I definitely believe there is life out in the universe, whether or not they've made contact with us I do not know. I tend to side with the theory that most UFO sightings are experimental military aircraft and that government pushes the 'little green men' narrative to give cover to it.



khaoz
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17 Apr 2014, 12:56 am

Jacoby wrote:
I definitely believe there is life out in the universe, whether or not they've made contact with us I do not know. I tend to side with the theory that most UFO sightings are experimental military aircraft and that government pushes the 'little green men' narrative to give cover to it.


I have never heard the government pushing the "little green men" theory. It's usually some science fiction writer or some movie creator, or some dude hallucinating on illicit materials that pushes that I always think of the government in denial mode. I think aliens may exist on earth but we are incapable of perceiving them,



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17 Apr 2014, 1:32 am

There are some strange crossovers in definition that make this one a bit difficult.

For instance since the 1580's when John Dee and Edward Kelley gave the world the Enochian language (as transmitted by Edward Kelley backwards over weeks and months) and as various magical orders such as the Golden Dawn started playing with what would be classically considered Enochian Angel magic they'd consistently meet them and they looked identical to the gray/zeta reticuli aliens that are popular in ufology. This of course and Aleister Crowley's 'Lam' were great picking grounds for end-times Christian spiritual warfare writers to call the whole UFO phenomena a satanic manifestation. Listening to Hermetic Hour on Blogtalk the show host whose head of Temple of Astarte and has tried Enochian magic edifies the parallel between grays and the Enochian angels and describes the same sort of behaviors in the Enochians - ie. a very scientific and emotionally foreign set of behavior in how they handle things. I've heard various occultists refer to them as 'watchers' which is precisely what Christian spiritual warfare people such as David Flynn or Steven Quayle raise concern about by way of 1st Enoch.

One of the books I read which probed more in the spiritual/multi-dimensional direction was Tom Horn and Christ Putnam's 'Exo-Vaticana'. What reading that was good for was the realization that whether it was the Irish faerie phenomena, the incubi/succubi of the middle-ages, or the sky-ship humans of the dark ages , the patterns of sightings seemed identical. You'd have stubborn patterns of evidence such as multiple witnesses of things that were clearly substantial (ie. not a bunch of people working themselves up over a shadow or play of light in the corner of a room or grove of trees), very credible people would claim to see very stand-out things, and when people claimed to have verbal contact with these things what they'd get a lot of specious dribble for information from them (ie. these phenomena seem to sort of 'clown' the viewer - such as multi-colored UFO's splitting and coming back together, or an airforce colonel when asked about the number of different races contacted or in consideration as viewing our planet at this time claimed there to be 53 known).

This is where reality gets really tricky and the fringes between seeing something with its own identity vs. a mass hallucination of the sort that's not just individual hallucination but actually takes physical form and can do things like leave burn-marks on grass, damage trees, catch a bullet, etc. - it's loopy stuff.

This article on synchronicity I think even gives just a sample of what some researchers consider to be the beginning point of this (ie. beliefs not only shape our sorting mechanisms but even amplify the evidence externally in quite a literal manner):

http://www.superconsciousness.com/topic ... nd-beliefs


So on the topic of whether we have races like us who've evolved, gained in their mental bearings on what's where in the universe, found us by means we couldn't scientifically understand at this point and had additionally difficult to grasp means of transportation that would cheat the space-time light-speed issue we tend to see as solid evidence against this thing - I'm agnostic. The problem is - even for all the sightings that we do have, they're proof of metaphysical 'stuff' boiling in the atmosphere but there seems to be little if any proof that it isn't something closer to a spiritual or metaphysical phenomena of just the collective subconscious boiling out into the physical. Things look bad enough that we'd have to I think have them openly landing, sharing who they are and where they're from, and having constant commerce with us between worlds before we could really be sure that anything we're seeing is what we presently think it to be.



khaoz
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17 Apr 2014, 1:40 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
There are some strange crossovers in definition that make this one a bit difficult.

For instance since the 1580's when John Dee and Edward Kelley gave the world the Enochian language (as transmitted by Edward Kelley backwards over weeks and months) and as various magical orders such as the Golden Dawn started playing with what would be classically considered Enochian Angel magic they'd consistently meet them and they looked identical to the gray/zeta reticuli aliens that are popular in ufology. This of course and Aleister Crowley's 'Lam' were great picking grounds for end-times Christian spiritual warfare writers to call the whole UFO phenomena a satanic manifestation. Listening to Hermetic Hour on Blogtalk the show host whose head of Temple of Astarte and has tried Enochian magic edifies the parallel between grays and the Enochian angels and describes the same sort of behaviors in the Enochians - ie. a very scientific and emotionally foreign set of behavior in how they handle things. I've heard various occultists refer to them as 'watchers' which is precisely what Christian spiritual warfare people such as David Flynn or Steven Quayle raise concern about by way of 1st Enoch.



One of the books I read which probed more in the spiritual/multi-dimensional direction was Tom Horn and Christ Putnam's 'Exo-Vaticana'. What reading that was good for was the realization that whether it was the Irish faerie phenomena, the incubi/succubi of the middle-ages, or the sky-ship humans of the dark ages , the patterns of sightings seemed identical. You'd have stubborn patterns of evidence such as multiple witnesses of things that were clearly substantial (ie. not a bunch of people working themselves up over a shadow or play of light in the corner of a room or grove of trees), very credible people would claim to see very stand-out things, and when people claimed to have verbal contact with these things what they'd get a lot of specious dribble for information from them (ie. these phenomena seem to sort of 'clown' the viewer - such as multi-colored UFO's splitting and coming back together, or an airforce colonel when asked about the number of different races contacted or in consideration as viewing our planet at this time claimed there to be 53 known).

This is where reality gets really tricky and the fringes between seeing something with its own identity vs. a mass hallucination of the sort that's not just individual hallucination but actually takes physical form and can do things like leave burn-marks on grass, damage trees, catch a bullet, etc. - it's loopy stuff.

This article on synchronicity I think even gives just a sample of what some researchers consider to be the beginning point of this (ie. beliefs not only shape our sorting mechanisms but even amplify the evidence externally in quite a literal manner):

http://www.superconsciousness.com/topic ... nd-beliefs


So on the topic of whether we have races like us who've evolved, gained in their mental bearings on what's where in the universe, found us by means we couldn't scientifically understand at this point and had additionally difficult to grasp means of transportation that would cheat the space-time light-speed issue we tend to see as solid evidence against this thing - I'm agnostic. The problem is - even for all the sightings that we do have, they're proof of metaphysical 'stuff' boiling in the atmosphere but there seems to be little if any proof that it isn't something closer to a spiritual or metaphysical phenomena of just the collective subconscious boiling out into the physical. Things look bad enough that we'd have to I think have them openly landing, sharing who they are and where they're from, and having constant commerce with us between worlds before we could really be sure that anything we're seeing is what we presently think it to be.



:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:



khaoz
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17 Apr 2014, 1:41 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
There are some strange crossovers in definition that make this one a bit difficult.

For instance since the 1580's when John Dee and Edward Kelley gave the world the Enochian language (as transmitted by Edward Kelley backwards over weeks and months) and as various magical orders such as the Golden Dawn started playing with what would be classically considered Enochian Angel magic they'd consistently meet them and they looked identical to the gray/zeta reticuli aliens that are popular in ufology. This of course and Aleister Crowley's 'Lam' were great picking grounds for end-times Christian spiritual warfare writers to call the whole UFO phenomena a satanic manifestation. Listening to Hermetic Hour on Blogtalk the show host whose head of Temple of Astarte and has tried Enochian magic edifies the parallel between grays and the Enochian angels and describes the same sort of behaviors in the Enochians - ie. a very scientific and emotionally foreign set of behavior in how they handle things. I've heard various occultists refer to them as 'watchers' which is precisely what Christian spiritual warfare people such as David Flynn or Steven Quayle raise concern about by way of 1st Enoch.



One of the books I read which probed more in the spiritual/multi-dimensional direction was Tom Horn and Christ Putnam's 'Exo-Vaticana'. What reading that was good for was the realization that whether it was the Irish faerie phenomena, the incubi/succubi of the middle-ages, or the sky-ship humans of the dark ages , the patterns of sightings seemed identical. You'd have stubborn patterns of evidence such as multiple witnesses of things that were clearly substantial (ie. not a bunch of people working themselves up over a shadow or play of light in the corner of a room or grove of trees), very credible people would claim to see very stand-out things, and when people claimed to have verbal contact with these things what they'd get a lot of specious dribble for information from them (ie. these phenomena seem to sort of 'clown' the viewer - such as multi-colored UFO's splitting and coming back together, or an airforce colonel when asked about the number of different races contacted or in consideration as viewing our planet at this time claimed there to be 53 known).

This is where reality gets really tricky and the fringes between seeing something with its own identity vs. a mass hallucination of the sort that's not just individual hallucination but actually takes physical form and can do things like leave burn-marks on grass, damage trees, catch a bullet, etc. - it's loopy stuff.

This article on synchronicity I think even gives just a sample of what some researchers consider to be the beginning point of this (ie. beliefs not only shape our sorting mechanisms but even amplify the evidence externally in quite a literal manner):

http://www.superconsciousness.com/topic ... nd-beliefs


So on the topic of whether we have races like us who've evolved, gained in their mental bearings on what's where in the universe, found us by means we couldn't scientifically understand at this point and had additionally difficult to grasp means of transportation that would cheat the space-time light-speed issue we tend to see as solid evidence against this thing - I'm agnostic. The problem is - even for all the sightings that we do have, they're proof of metaphysical 'stuff' boiling in the atmosphere but there seems to be little if any proof that it isn't something closer to a spiritual or metaphysical phenomena of just the collective subconscious boiling out into the physical. Things look bad enough that we'd have to I think have them openly landing, sharing who they are and where they're from, and having constant commerce with us between worlds before we could really be sure that anything we're seeing is what we presently think it to be.



:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:



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17 Apr 2014, 2:21 am

In regard to the question if there is other life besides ourselves in the universe - currently, long before us, or long after us - I think it's more than likely yes. Are they aware of our existence? With that question, I think the answer is a definite maybe/maybe not. That said, I think most UFO sightings are either misidentifications, deliberate hoaxes, or are the wishful thinking of either the overly imaginative, or the feeble minded.


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khaoz
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17 Apr 2014, 2:29 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the question if there is other life besides ourselves in the universe - currently, long before us, or long after us - I think it's more than likely yes. Are they aware of our existence? With that question, I think the answer is a definite maybe/maybe not. That said, I think most UFO sightings are either misidentifications, deliberate hoaxes, or are the wishful thinking of either the overly imaginative, or the feeble minded.


There are hoaxters on youtube now pimping the tale of an alien mothership hovering behind the sun awaiting the right time to descend upon us to do some dastardly cartoonish deeds. These videos interview on a regular basis several so called "high up-in - the -know" ex military and government officials who claim to constantly be moving from motel room to motel room in secretive locations, just ahead of some "agents" who tap into their phones and computers trying to terrorize them into silence.

I don't know who is making money off peddling these conspiracies, but they have an avid audience of looney tune characters commenting on their videos and pushing their agenda.



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17 Apr 2014, 2:39 am

khaoz wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the question if there is other life besides ourselves in the universe - currently, long before us, or long after us - I think it's more than likely yes. Are they aware of our existence? With that question, I think the answer is a definite maybe/maybe not. That said, I think most UFO sightings are either misidentifications, deliberate hoaxes, or are the wishful thinking of either the overly imaginative, or the feeble minded.


There are hoaxters on youtube now pimping the tale of an alien mothership hovering behind the sun awaiting the right time to descend upon us to do some dastardly cartoonish deeds. These videos interview on a regular basis several so called "high up-in - the -know" ex military and government officials who claim to constantly be moving from motel room to motel room in secretive locations, just ahead of some "agents" who tap into their phones and computers trying to terrorize them into silence.

I don't know who is making money off peddling these conspiracies, but they have an avid audience of looney tune characters commenting on their videos and pushing their agenda.


I have absolutely no doubt that there are such dishonest people out either for notoriety, and/or to make a buck off of true believers. I used to be big on the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories, and I soon found there were plenty of such people trying to take advantage of conspiracy buffs who ranged from the truly inquisitive and open minded, to the just plain dumb. And like the Kennedy assassination theories, there is probably something to alien life, but these unethical hoaxers in both cases have hurt legitimate research.


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17 Apr 2014, 6:21 am

Is there life out there somewhere? Probably.

Is it aware of us? Certainly not.



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17 Apr 2014, 6:45 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Is there life out there somewhere? Probably.

Is it aware of us? Certainly not.


^this.

The universe is so massive that it defies comprehension, even trying to compare planets to grains of sand is so remote from an accurate comparison. Any life out there would be so unlikely to be close enough to ever make contact that that alone ,akes it essentially impossible.

Then add to that the expanse of time as we know it. An alien civilization would have to rise to self awareness and learn long distance space travel technology before they could visit, and even then they would have to overlap in time with our rise to sentience. Even if they become that technologically advanced, they would have to find us in the massive expanse of space before they face extinction.

And you have to remember that we can only realistically sense 3 dimensions, so an alien life form would also have to see those dimensions for us to communicate with each other. And on top of that, we have evolved to the very specific conditions of this planet, which means that even if we encounter life from out there, there is little chance that we would even recognize it.

So to reiterate:
Is there life out there?
Almost definitely, given the size, age, complexity, and stability of the laws of physics of this universe.

Will we ever meet up and be able to communicate?
No.

There are some in the psychology field who theorize that many alien abductions are just very vivid flashes of memory during sleep from our time of birth that our brains then expand into a full blown illusion. The fairly consistant humanoid shape, the often mentioned gray skin, and the frequent descriptions of large eyes are cited as support for this theory. When they’re born, babies see in black and white and shades of gray. And because newborns can only focus less than a foot away, most of their vision is blurred and distorted.


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17 Apr 2014, 6:47 am

Space is to large whilst I do believe we are not the only people in the universe the distances required to meet one another are far to huge for communication or visitations.

it's possible there are alien races thousands or hundreds of thousands of years more advanced than us and no doubt there are far more interesting places for them to be going than to watch what are essentially ants to them doing nothing important.

Someone might know we exist from our radio signals but I doubt it considering how far away the nearest habitable planet could be for any type of life form and most life is it's anything like earth is not smart enough to explore space.

BTW if you're not aware how big space is then watch this video
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRjGarICal4[/youtube]

we don't even know if the universe even has an edge where nothing is, we have no idea how massive it could be because we can only see out tiny part of it.

within a small region 13.2billion light years away hubble found 5,500 galaxies...

how much further beyond 13.2 billion light years does the universe go on for? we are seriously the only planet with life within than distance considering the billions of planets?



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17 Apr 2014, 8:32 am

13.8 billion LY is pretty much the whole shooting match of the known (17 billion LY wide) KNOWN universe. Its not in any sense a 'small sample'.

Intelligent ETs from within our solar system (as the OP implied)?

No way!

There might be indigenous microbes on Mars, or Titan. But no inteligent saucer driving LGMs (little green men) from within our solar system (unless they are colonists from another star system).


ETs from within our galaxy, but from other star systems?

The odds of any particular star system having life is a zillion to one against.

But since there are a hundred billion star systems in the galaxy the odds the one or more has life is almost certain.

Also life could evolve in circumstances that are the-same-but-different than we have here. For example life might evolve in the clouds of a free floating brown dwarf ( a body bigger than jupiter, but smaller than the smallest dwarf star, that is big enough to generate its own chemical heat- but not big enough to induce nuclear fusion so it doesnt get too hot) that might have goldilocks conditions similiar to Earth in the complete darkness of interstellar space. But I digress.


My guess is that there thousands of planets in the Milky Way Galaxy that have microbial life comparable to our bacteria. But a biosphere that makes it to the ameboa stage (much less to the jellyfish stage, much less to equivalent to human stage) are extremely rare. Our own planet got through two thirds of its existence before life made the leap from bacteria to protozoa. It got through 85 percent of its existence before it got from protozoa to Jellyfish. Humans have only been around in the last geologic heartbeat.

We are not alone. But for practical purposes we ARE alone because sentient species are so far apart in both space and in time that they almost never encounter each other.



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17 Apr 2014, 9:05 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
In regard to the question if there is other life besides ourselves in the universe - currently, long before us, or long after us - I think it's more than likely yes. Are they aware of our existence? With that question, I think the answer is a definite maybe/maybe not. That said, I think most UFO sightings are either misidentifications, deliberate hoaxes, or are the wishful thinking of either the overly imaginative, or the feeble minded.


This. Without evidence, it's impossible to say. However, there is this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Neo_1LGVqE[/youtube]



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17 Apr 2014, 10:04 am

I don't think that other life forms are aware of our existence. There's probably 50-100 lightyears to the nearest planet that houses primitive life (even jellyfish are extremely complex creatures compared to bacteria), and there are probably millions of lightyears between each intelligent civilization, since the prerequisites required for intelligent life are very strict.


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17 Apr 2014, 12:06 pm

IF life is not regularly killed off by astronomical disasters throughout the universe,
then intelligence will multiply beyond our imagining. Other civilizations can/will be/are
thousands or millions of years ahead of us.

And IF there are many many levels of matter and energy our primitive selves do not understand,
(as appears to me to be the case) that are manipulable by alien ultra intelligent beings, these fields
could be used, in conjunction with future advanced computers and software, to monitor for all types
of activity throughout the universe, and notify the builders of any "special conditions", if they're interested.

denny