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TheMostUnknown
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12 Aug 2014, 10:10 pm

My name is Justin. I'm 18 and I believe in nothing. I'm from the south so you know the south is like very religious. Some people when they ask me what I believe they get shock when I tell them I don't believe in anything. Now a lot of people would probably say that I'm an atheist but, when it comes to what I believe I usually don't put myself in any category. If I had to choose, I say that the closest thing I am is agnostic but 9 times out of 10 I tell people I'm nothing. Growing up the religion I used to follow was Christianity. I was raised to believe everything in the bible and that God created everything literally. Now I don't. I don't think I was a religious person growing up. I was taught that there was only one God and all the stories in the bible was true so I just assume that it was all true. Now that doesn't mean I was religious. I think growing up when your young, you really don't have a choice on what you can believe or what religion to follow. I have ADHD and Aspergers. I had those since basically my whole life. If your a person with Aspergers I think you know and kind of understand the problems of having it. Growing up, it was kind of hard because I been alone my whole life due to having Aspergers. I been laughed at, bullied, some people even treated me like I was non-human because I was different. I don't believe in God (due to lack of evidence, please I hope I'm not offending anybody) because and I'm being 100% honest, if it wasn't for family and video games, I don't think I would be this far in life. So yeah life is hard. I got problems. I still got problems that I'm still dealing with ever since I was a kid but if it wasn't for family and video games I wouldn't be here.



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13 Aug 2014, 3:18 am

Welcome to PPR, there are many agnostic's here, and in the true sense of the word there are a few Atheists. I myself like Richard Dawkins description of his level of non belief "I am agnostic about God in the same way that I am agnostic about the Tooth Fairy" in other words it is impossible to ABSOLUTELY disprove the existence of either, so one cannot say with absolute certainty that they do not exist.

With regard to AS and ADHD take one small bit of comfort in that you have known about them since you were young. I went through life like a wrecking ball and was used as a punch bag on so many occasions without knowing what the heck was going wrong, I finally found out at the age of 44 and finally got some semblance of peace of mind. That beign said I cannot imagine me surviving growing up in the bible belt with or without knowledge of the disorder, I have been vocally opposed to religion most of my life, your towns folk would have burnt me at the stake :lol:

As to being bullied, both physically and emotionally I think most of us on here have a very good understanding of what this means, there are a couple here who have the opinion that it is better to get your head kicked in than let people change your routine eg find different ways home from school. Personally I doubt these people have actually experienced what it is they are talking about. For years I suffered from constant suicidal ideation, by constant I mean at least once every 5 to ten minutes. FOr me this all changed when I found out about AS and all the pieces of my life fell into place and I was able to understand what had been going on, it still happens occasionally maybe once a month. (something that would have most "normal" people rushing of to the shrink, but for me it is almost meaningless.

As to offending the religious by pointing out that their beliefs are baseless, I do it all the time. To my mind if you come onto this part of the site and prmote your views expect to get them shot down if you do not have the evidence to back up your claims. As you say there is ZERO evidence for the existence of God.


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13 Aug 2014, 3:44 am

You don't need a reason to not believe. It's the other way around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophi ... n_of_proof



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13 Aug 2014, 1:32 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Welcome to PPR, there are many agnostic's here, and in the true sense of the word there are a few Atheists. I myself like Richard Dawkins description of his level of non belief "I am agnostic about God in the same way that I am agnostic about the Tooth Fairy" in other words it is impossible to ABSOLUTELY disprove the existence of either, so one cannot say with absolute certainty that they do not exist.

With regard to AS and ADHD take one small bit of comfort in that you have known about them since you were young. I went through life like a wrecking ball and was used as a punch bag on so many occasions without knowing what the heck was going wrong, I finally found out at the age of 44 and finally got some semblance of peace of mind. That beign said I cannot imagine me surviving growing up in the bible belt with or without knowledge of the disorder, I have been vocally opposed to religion most of my life, your towns folk would have burnt me at the stake :lol:

As to being bullied, both physically and emotionally I think most of us on here have a very good understanding of what this means, there are a couple here who have the opinion that it is better to get your head kicked in than let people change your routine eg find different ways home from school. Personally I doubt these people have actually experienced what it is they are talking about. For years I suffered from constant suicidal ideation, by constant I mean at least once every 5 to ten minutes. FOr me this all changed when I found out about AS and all the pieces of my life fell into place and I was able to understand what had been going on, it still happens occasionally maybe once a month. (something that would have most "normal" people rushing of to the shrink, but for me it is almost meaningless.

As to offending the religious by pointing out that their beliefs are baseless, I do it all the time. To my mind if you come onto this part of the site and prmote your views expect to get them shot down if you do not have the evidence to back up your claims. As you say there is ZERO evidence for the existence of God.


I was diagnosed with Asperger's while in my forties, too - and because of it, my life after all this time finally makes sense. And yes, I had also had struggles with deep depression verging on being suicidal in my time. And why I fancy myself a Christian, I hardly would be able to stand being raised in the Bible Belt, with all it's fundamentalist literalism, and social conservatism.


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AspE
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13 Aug 2014, 2:16 pm

TheMostUnknown wrote:
My name is Justin. I'm 18 and I believe in nothing. ....

First of all, no you don't. I'm sure there are many things you believe in. I'm sure you have your own moral code of things you would do and not do. So don't swallow the religious propaganda and think you believe in nothing like some kind of nihilist. That makes them superior. Atheists believe things, they just do so because they have evidence for them. Reliable evidence, not just some silly book.

Secondly, if you don't believe in God, you are an atheist, regardless of whether you think God is a possibility.



TheMostUnknown
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13 Aug 2014, 4:39 pm

AspE says:

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First of all, no you don't. I'm sure there are many things you believe in. I'm sure you have your own moral code of things you would do and not do.


Yeah I think I know what you mean. I have my own moral code or way I live. The things that I live by I think are simple. Things like treat everybody the same, don't treat anybody different, treat people the way you want to be treated, be nice, respect the elderly, etc,. You can call those things obvious but I think one of the most important things everybody should try to live by is being happy and have fun. I remember months ago I read a couple of stories in the Bible and after I was done I felt like the Bible have so many rules and it makes life a little bit boring to me. All I'm saying is in life, be happy and have fun.



tern
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14 Aug 2014, 7:31 am

TheMostUnknown wrote:
You can call those things obvious but I think one of the most important things everybody should try to live by is being happy and have fun.
Is that a moral decision?
I think being happy is morally wrong and what everyone should try to avoid. Why? Simply out of fairness solidarity. Because unfair early death exists. It's unfair to be happy when some other innocent person's lot is an unfair early death by biological chance or cruel physical accident.



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14 Aug 2014, 8:53 am

tern wrote:
I think being happy is morally wrong and what everyone should try to avoid. Why? Simply out of fairness solidarity. Because unfair early death exists. It's unfair to be happy when some other innocent person's lot is an unfair early death by biological chance or cruel physical accident.

What level of misery should we strive for?



tern
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15 Aug 2014, 8:16 am

A level that is aware, and angry at what wea re aware of, that feels angry emotional solidarity with all the folks who have had it bad, and to feel perpetually driven to care about the fightback against everything unfair, big and small.



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15 Aug 2014, 8:35 am

tern wrote:
A level that is aware, and angry at what wea re aware of, that feels angry emotional solidarity with all the folks who have had it bad, and to feel perpetually driven to care about the fightback against everything unfair, big and small.


This anger and emotional upset does nothing but elevate stress hormones in your body. Your feelings do nothing to improve things for them. A far better use of energy is to pick something and do something about it. Like these guys:
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/ou ... sues/ebola

That's just one out of countless examples. The fact is, you can't change everything but you can change one thing. It may be as small as deciding to no longer buy X product because it is made in a sweatshop. Anger is not necessary to do these actions. It isn't even helpful because it clouds your thinking so you can't come up with rational strategies for what you can do to not make a particular problem worse or even make it better.

And since this is a religion thread, no particular religion or belief in God is needed to do positive (or at least do less negative) things.



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15 Aug 2014, 8:40 am

I'm gonna start gnashing my feet to show solidarity.



tern
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15 Aug 2014, 2:31 pm

Janissy wrote:
This anger and emotional upset does nothing but elevate stress hormones in your body.
Wrong. It makes the position morally fairer, and it expresses solidarity with their cause, which being morally right is automatically positive.
Janissy wrote:
Your feelings do nothing to improve things for them.
Would you want to feel cared about by caring folks angry on your behalf, or uncared about and forgotten by selfish folks who have the unfair opportunity to be happy?
Janissy wrote:
It isn't even helpful because it clouds your thinking so you can't come up with rational strategies for what you can do to not make a particular problem worse or even make it better.
But it's a moral motivator, without which you might not bother to think at all.



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15 Aug 2014, 3:57 pm

tern wrote:
Janissy wrote:
This anger and emotional upset does nothing but elevate stress hormones in your body.
Wrong. It makes the position morally fairer, and it expresses solidarity with their cause, which being morally right is automatically positive.


Are you talking about a specific wrong somewhere in the world? For example, are you joining protests about Israelis bombing Palestinians or some other specific bad thing? If you are channeling the anger into some visible solidarity such as a protest rally/message board etc., then you have expressed solidarity. If you haven't expressed the solidarity to anybody, it is pretty meaningless. Sitting in your room and seething really doesn't do anything but elevate stress hormones. And even when you express solidarity, why would this obligate you to be angry 24/7/365 (my impression of your position) rather than just when discussing that situation. If you are angry at literally every instance of injustice/preventable early death everywhere on the planet, you are obligating yourself to be angry literally all the time and at everything. That isn't moral high ground. It's just a justification for an unhealthy amount of rage.


Janissy wrote:
Your feelings do nothing to improve things for them.
tern
Quote:
Would you want to feel cared about by caring folks angry on your behalf, or uncared about and forgotten by selfish folks who have the unfair opportunity to be happy?


I would want the few people who are part of my life (spouse,relatives,friends) to be angry on my behalf for a short amount of time. This did happen (situation will remain undescribed for privacy reasons) and these people were angry on my behalf for a short amount of time and used that anger on my behalf to help me brainstorm what to do next (which I did, situation resolved). It would be horribly selfish of me to expect them to forego all happiness until my situation was resolved. I also wouldn't want any absolute strangers being angry because person X who they didn't know was hurt by situation Y. It would be selfish of me to think that other people's happiness is somehow "unfair". I can't wrap my head around this idea that happiness is somehow immoral.



Janissy wrote:
It isn't even helpful because it clouds your thinking so you can't come up with rational strategies for what you can do to not make a particular problem worse or even make it better.
tern
Quote:
But it's a moral motivator, without which you might not bother to think at all.

I disagree. I don't think anger is necessary to think up possible solutions. All that is needed is an agreement that there should be solutions. The anger of the family and friends in my above vague example was very short lived. It didn't turn to not caring. Instead it turned to brainstorming what to do next. My own anger was getting in the way and people who cared about me but not so angry were more clear headed.

If you think it is immoral to be happy while anybody else on the planet is unhappy, then we just disagree. I see nothing moral about perpetual angry thoughts. If you can turn these thoughts into actions which make things better for somebody else, then all well and good. But if you are never happy, then you are just never happy. It's an emotional state, not a moral one.



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16 Aug 2014, 11:23 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Welcome to PPR, there are many agnostic's here, and in the true sense of the word there are a few Atheists.


I would call myself an agnostic atheist as I don't believe in any gods but I don't know if any exist. Perfectly compatible in my opinion.


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16 Aug 2014, 11:37 pm

Humanaut wrote:
I'm gonna start gnashing my feet to show solidarity.


I'm not ready to commit to an entire foot, let alone port and starboard both, but I am gnashing a couple toes right now as I type. Hope that helps.



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17 Aug 2014, 2:58 am

luanqibazao wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
I'm gonna start gnashing my feet to show solidarity.


I'm not ready to commit to an entire foot, let alone port and starboard both, but I am gnashing a couple toes right now as I type. Hope that helps.

I'm so gumb I can't feel my teeth.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIFzR48ABqE[/youtube]