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wittgenstein
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27 Oct 2014, 7:39 pm

ISIS poses an existential threat to western civilization. I am not talking about terrorism. Even if they suicide bomb us and kill 10,000 westerners (not likely ) that will have minimal effect. More people die in auto accidents. * Im talking about if they control mid-eastern oil. Cutting us off means the end of western civilization.
ISIS is evil. There is nothing immoral about killing genocidal, rapist maniacs. The syllogisms say we must eliminate them for both moral reasons and our self interest. Sometimes those two reasons coincide!
Our current ISIS policy is like having a house full of cockroachs. We go in once a day and stomp on 10 or 20. That means we will always have a house full of cockroachs. The only logical solution is to go all in. And yes, that means boots on the ground.
* There were 32,479 traffic deaths in 2011


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27 Oct 2014, 8:11 pm

I'll grab my Frankish throwing axe (as I don't own a gun) and stop chopping fanatics!


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27 Oct 2014, 8:12 pm

Double post - sorry.


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Last edited by Kraichgauer on 27 Oct 2014, 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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27 Oct 2014, 9:59 pm

@ OP


1- what are you smoking?

2- Where can i buy some?


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danothan24
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27 Oct 2014, 10:05 pm

thomas81 wrote:
@ OP


1- what are you smoking?

2- Where can i buy some?

Yep. This whole thing makes me facepalm hard enough to break my nose.


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27 Oct 2014, 10:22 pm

Western Civilization is already based on genocide, slavery, and colonialism.

The Mideast problem tracks back to the British, and the CIA, trying to get "our oil" from under the people who live there, mostly by killing them.

ISIS are the sons of the fathers we killed in Iraq.

We killed well over 100,000 because they resisted our freedoms.

In the USA we killed the land owners, and called the survivors hostiles, and put them in concentration camps. There they were held as POWs until 1974.

We are the same, now we use drones.

The desire to rule over other people and lands, and to take their resources, enslave them in place, is the main cause of why people object.

Remember Viet Nam, 68,000 Americans dead over some Colonial Massa Syndrome.

Now those same massas are whoring in China.

We The People, of whatever country, are always sold out.

Somalia, Iran, Libya, Iraq, Afganistan, as ye sow so shall ye reap.

So lead the way, fly to Bagdad and take up your flag and gun, march west, and slaughter all before you, for your God gave you everything you hear about.



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28 Oct 2014, 12:37 am

Aren't they planning to invade Russia or something? I say let them, since they wouldn't survive the Russian Winter. It's why the last few attempted invasions of Russia have failed.

We don't need to do much about them right now, since it seems that there's a good chance they'll fall due to their own idiocy. Then again, I don't pay much attention to that sort of thing in the first place.


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naturalplastic
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28 Oct 2014, 1:01 am

Lessee...

If ISIS took over oil fields in -where ever- Iraq or Kuwaitt- what exactly would happen?

Would the ISIS fighters drink all of the oil?

Would they just leave it in the ground?

Most likely they would...SELL it!

And they would probably give us a better price than OPEC, and undercut our "friends" the Saudies, Qatar, and the Emirates.

Or maybe they're such meanies that would refuse to sell the oil at all. Which would mean that would be keeping themselves in poverty, and hurting themselves more than they would be hurting us by refusing to do business.

Or maybe they would sell their oil, but just not to us. India, and China, get more thirsty for oil every day. So maybe they will just only sell oil to those two markets, and not to us. Which would mean that India and China would get oil from ISIS, and would buy less oil from somewhere else, and free up that unbought oil for...US Americans to buy. So it still wouldnt mean anything.



wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 6:01 am

thomas81 wrote:
@ OP


1- what are you smoking?

2- Where can i buy some?

What do you disagree with?
1. ISIS is evil.
2. We depend on the middle east oil big time.
3. Intense and brief military action (at least in this situation) is preferable to long drawn out conflict.
4. Without oil western civilization will become medieval.
If you agree with 1-4 then (if you are logical) you are forced by logic to be for intense intervention.
I think you should think more before dismissing something as stupid or silly.


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wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 6:09 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Lessee...

If ISIS took over oil fields in -where ever- Iraq or Kuwaitt- what exactly would happen?

Would the ISIS fighters drink all of the oil?

Would they just leave it in the ground?

Most likely they would...SELL it!

And they would probably give us a better price than OPEC, and undercut our "friends" the Saudies, Qatar, and the Emirates.

Or maybe they're such meanies that would refuse to sell the oil at all. Which would mean that would be keeping themselves in poverty, and hurting themselves more than they would be hurting us by refusing to do business.

Or maybe they would sell their oil, but just not to us. India, and China, get more thirsty for oil every day. So maybe they will just only sell oil to those two markets, and not to us. Which would mean that India and China would get oil from ISIS, and would buy less oil from somewhere else, and free up that unbought oil for...US Americans to buy. So it still wouldnt mean anything.

That is uninformed nonsense. The world is running out of oil not just the US. Finding a market would not be a problem even without the US. Besides we are talking about religious fanatics not self-interest capitalists. True they like money but not as much as their crazy beliefs. For God's sake they are willing to die for them.
The next big war will be between Russia and US. Because of global warming the Arctic will melt exposing the last major oil reserves.
Or are you saying that the world is not running out of oil?! ! :D No, you cannot be that uninformed. Why do you think there is fracking? Because even tho it is far more expensive than conventional drilling, we are desperate. Its like having an eighth of an inch of pepsi in our glass and shooting water into the glass to get the pepsi molecules off those pesky ice cubes.


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
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wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 6:17 am

I cannot believe that I have to prove something so obvious. I will send links (when I am off my tablet) that prove that the world is running out of oil and that the military is preparing for a fight over arctic oil.


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wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 6:23 am

Currently, more oil is being supplied in the interest of short term profit. It is like putting 2 more straws in that almost empty glass of pepsi. That is why I am against the new pipeline. In the short term we will have more oil for less price but in the long term it is a disastrous policy.
Unfortunately, as the responses to this thread prove,people are incapable of seeing the big picture and only see the situation immediately in front of them.


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wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 6:38 am

Inventor wrote:
Western Civilization is already based on genocide, slavery, and colonialism.

The Mideast problem tracks back to the British, and the CIA, trying to get "our oil" from under the people who live there, mostly by killing them.

ISIS are the sons of the fathers we killed in Iraq.

We killed well over 100,000 because they resisted our freedoms.

In the USA we killed the land owners, and called the survivors hostiles, and put them in concentration camps. There they were held as POWs until 1974.

We are the same, now we use drones.

The desire to rule over other people and lands, and to take their resources, enslave them in place, is the main cause of why people object.

Remember Viet Nam, 68,000 Americans dead over some Colonial Massa Syndrome.

Now those same massas are whoring in China.

We The People, of whatever country, are always sold out.

Somalia, Iran, Libya, Iraq, Afganistan, as ye sow so shall ye reap.

So lead the way, fly to Bagdad and take up your flag and gun, march west, and slaughter all before you, for your God gave you everything you hear about.

I agree! We caused most of our problems because of our immorallity.
However, just because we caused a current evil (ISIS) does not mean that it is not evil and should not be destroyed. For example, would you argue that because we caused Hitler and Nazism (by blockades even after WW1 that caused mass German starvation and made the Germans receptive to a tyrant seeking revenge, same as Khomeni and our support for the Shah) we should not have declared war on Hitlerism?


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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 6:51 am

I agree that even if we secure mid east oil,in the long term (Saudi Arabia has been misrepresenting the extent,tho still big,oil reserves) we will run out of oil. However, securing that oil will give us time to explore other energy sources (wind, solar etc). Do you have any idea how long it will take to convert all the gas stations to electric?
Luckily, most arabs hate ISIS. We will only have to fight 30,000-50,000 (estimated strength of ISIS). That is a tiny fraction of the amount of Vietcong we had to fight.If we keep waiting that 50,000 will become bigger ,stronger and wealthier. They make $3,000,000 a day from selling stolen oil! Thats a lot of money for recruitment and weapons!


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


wittgenstein
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28 Oct 2014, 7:06 am

I remember decades ago a girlfriend told me," When you say something I think God he's weird. But then I think about it and realize, my God he is absolutely right!" I imagine you guys are experiencing that same AHA moment.


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I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


naturalplastic
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28 Oct 2014, 8:05 am

wittgenstein wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Lessee...

If ISIS took over oil fields in -where ever- Iraq or Kuwaitt- what exactly would happen?

Would the ISIS fighters drink all of the oil?

Would they just leave it in the ground?

Most likely they would...SELL it!

And they would probably give us a better price than OPEC, and undercut our "friends" the Saudies, Qatar, and the Emirates.

Or maybe they're such meanies that would refuse to sell the oil at all. Which would mean that would be keeping themselves in poverty, and hurting themselves more than they would be hurting us by refusing to do business.

Or maybe they would sell their oil, but just not to us. India, and China, get more thirsty for oil every day. So maybe they will just only sell oil to those two markets, and not to us. Which would mean that India and China would get oil from ISIS, and would buy less oil from somewhere else, and free up that unbought oil for...US Americans to buy. So it still wouldnt mean anything.

That is uninformed nonsense. The world is running out of oil not just the US. Finding a market would not be a problem even without the US. Besides we are talking about religious fanatics not self-interest capitalists. True they like money but not as much as their crazy beliefs. For God's sake they are willing to die for them.
The next big war will be between Russia and US. Because of global warming the Arctic will melt exposing the last major oil reserves.
Or are you saying that the world is not running out of oil?! ! :D No, you cannot be that uninformed. Why do you think there is fracking? Because even tho it is far more expensive than conventional drilling, we are desperate. Its like having an eighth of an inch of pepsi in our glass and shooting water into the glass to get the pepsi molecules off those pesky ice cubes.


So what?

Doesnt change what I am saying.

What exactly do you envision happening?

ISIS takes over Kuwaitt- and the whole western world instantly collapses?