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| Should Barry Bonds be allowed in the Hall of Fame? |
| Yes |
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46% |
[ 6 ] |
| No |
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38% |
[ 5 ] |
| Yes, but not on the first ballot |
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15% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
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ddrapayo
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 232
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: Should Barry Bonds be in the Hall of Fame |
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I think he should. Yes, he used steroids, but he used them before they were banned? Do we say Ed Walsh, Burleigh Grimes, Red Faber, and Stan Coveleski (who are all there) shouldn't be because they threw spitballls before they were banned. There is a thing called ex post facto, and that means you can't get in trouble for doing something before it was banned.
Please, voice your opinions on this. |
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Apollo13
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: another time and place
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Definitely, deserves to be in. As somebody that grew up around Pittsburgh back when he was first getting starting, I've always respected his talent and liked him for what he was. Honestly, I feel that baseball should invoke a steroid era clause and keep the old records separate from all the new juiced ones. |
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ddrapayo
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Apollo13 wrote: | | Definitely, deserves to be in. As somebody that grew up around Pittsburgh back when he was first getting starting, I've always respected his talent and liked him for what he was. Honestly, I feel that baseball should invoke a steroid era clause and keep the old records separate from all the new juiced ones. |
No! Do we keep the dead-ball era records seperate? No. So why should this be any different? |
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Apollo13
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: another time and place
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Well there is more than a slight difference between using a less tightly wound baseball or using some lubricant on a ball, and chemically providing an advantage that shreds the average numbers from a couple of years prior. What happens if they elect to start using aluminum bats next year and lightweights start averaging 30 homers a year? |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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i say deny him the record of beating aaron's homerun stat. he didn't earn it.
for him to do what he's done in the league does deserve recognition but i say pete rose should get in first. |
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ddrapayo
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| its called no ex post facto. |
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DavidH
Hummingbird
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 22
Location: Michigan USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yes he is a great player, while I'm not a huge fan, and it's likely he used steroids. But MLB did nothing about it, till it was too late. there's not much we can do we really don't have any hard evidence against him. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| ddrapayo wrote: | | its called no ex post facto. |
it's called hank aaron didn't do with steroids.
that's like saying that because you beat halo on beginner that you're better than someone struggling on legendary.
he doesn't get that record but he gets the hall of fame.
maybe an asterisk....where hank aaron is at the top with an asterisk and the asterisk saying that bonds topped it but used steroids and so not all his HR's were fairly earned.
and yes, it is different than things like spitballs. steroids are performance enhancers. you're chemically altering your body.
as far as him saying he's off roids...chris benoit passed steroid tests and was juicing for years up till he killed his wife and son. you can cheat tests. |
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QL
Snowy Owl
Joined: Dec 01, 2006
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Hank will always be the home run king in my eyes. He went through so much crap and now he's having the record he pried out of his hands by a cheater. I really don't care if they put Barry in the HOF as the best cheater in an era of cheaters, it's the record that matters. I'll never acknowledge him breaking the record. He can have his little asterisk. To top it all off, he's one of the biggest jerks in all of sports. He has brought it all upon his self and deserves every bit of it. I hope they can find "proof" that he did steroids so they can just wipe him out of existence. Hopefully ARod can make the record legit 10 or so years down the line. |
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ddrapayo
Sea Gull
Joined: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| The fact still remains that as far as we know, Bonds never violated any rules. (Aside from that positive amphetamines test last year, but amphetamines don't cause players to hit home runs more.) Therefore, he should be in the hall. I'm not saying what he did was right, I'm just saying he should be in the hall of fame. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ddrapayo wrote: | | The fact still remains that as far as we know, Bonds never violated any rules. (Aside from that positive amphetamines test last year, but amphetamines don't cause players to hit home runs more.) Therefore, he should be in the hall. I'm not saying what he did was right, I'm just saying he should be in the hall of fame. |
bonds violated the spirit of the game. same with jose canseco, mark mcgwire, jason giambi, and all the other guys who do steroids. |
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unknown_nightmare
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 57
Location: kansas city kansas
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zyban
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 16, 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| First off, never once have I seen a bad baseball player take steroids and all of a sudden start hitting home runs. It takes a great hitter to hit homeruns (or base hits for that matter) consistantly in the major leagues. Aside from pete rose (who I also believe should be in the hall of fame!!) who is the greatest hitter of all time barry bonds is a close second. There have been very few hitters in history with his natural ability. Another thing I would like to mention against the argument that roid records should be seperate is the fact that back in the day great hitters were hardly ever walked , yet barry bonds get walked ALOT. This equates to less actual productive at bats which more than accounts for the very marginal gain from roid' use. Also, considering, the average playing span of players in the bigs is diminishing has to do a lot with some of these records lasting as long as they have. Griffy would have easily broken barrys it had he stayed healthy, dems just the breaks. BARRY IS A FAMER YOU LAMERS! |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| zyban wrote: | | BARRY IS A FAMER YOU LAMERS! |
he's a juicer, you loser. |
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skafather84
Platypus God
Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Age: 23
Posts: 4478
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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According to the book, Bonds was inspired to use steroids after watching McGwire's 1998 home run record chase with Sammy Sosa. He began working with Greg Anderson, who would later be hired by the Giants. Anderson reportedly received the substances at issue from BALCO. He also kept meticulous records of Bonds' program; the authors report that Anderson's records indicate that Bonds took up to 20 pills a day and learned to inject himself. The book also claimed that the Giants chose not to confront Bonds about his change in physical appearance, fearing that they would alienate their star slugger, or worse from the team's standpoint, create a drug scandal immediately before the opening of their new stadium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Shadows
taken from sealed federal hearings...people are going to jail over that information. bonds shouldn't be going to the hall of fame. |
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