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RockyMtnAspieMom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Help! AS son argues constantly! Reply with quote

He is driving me crazy. I can not argue with a 6-year-old. He thinks he knows everything, and will argue about everything. He's been home a lot from school lately (days off, sick days, etc.) and I think he gets bored if there isn't a conflict going on. Or maybe he just has a need to constantly control evrything.

He's such a sweet kid one minute, then BAM! monster comes out to argue...and gets really, really snotty. Where did it come from? What happened? It's Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde (sorry about the spelling)
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Zsazsa
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: kid that argues Reply with quote

Sounds like a "normal" kid to me...but, don't you realize you are actually giving him those opportunities to argue and drive you
crazy? If you change how you react to his behavior, it will affect and change his behavior for the better.

It is important to find activities to keep him busy during the day when he is home...he needs some "structured" activities.

Simply getting some library books from the local library and engaging in reading activities together is a good start...since he is not in school at the moment, you can still create similar "school" activities at home. Learning can take place anywhere...not just in a school building.
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lelia
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How tiring!

Maybe you can deflect some of the arguing (tho I doubt it) by saying, Okay, I said what I said, you said what you said, and now it's time to move on. If you want to keep arguing, you can do it to the wall.
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RockyMtnAspieMom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's reading at a third grade level as it is...he's doing math advanced too..it's not that he has nothing else to do or learn with...he has plenty. Believe me. He also has an 18-month-old baby brother to "control" and "raise" all day...because he thinks he has to do that to. He has AS with ADHD and NVLD. Never, ever stops talking all day long. Crazy is where I go naturally when I haven't got one single second of silence all day long. He even follows me to the bathroom and talks to me through the door as I go. (don't forget the 18-month-old that's into everything) It IS tiring. I'm 41 and I feel 60 today. Ignoring doesn't work either. Never did.
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being arguementive is normal for kids and even more normal for aspies.

He probably does feel like he knows everything - and he won't be far wrong - since he's probably more expert than you in a few areas.

Make sure that he's not arguing so that he gets more time with you. (trying to keep your attention focussed on him) - if he is, then you should try to spend more time with him.

If not, invent a phrase - eg: "Nope.. I'm not arguing with that" - use it and then stop arguing - he doesn't automatically win just because he gets the last word in.
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Triangular_Trees
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He could also be arguin because thats the only way he knows how to have a conversation with you, where he feels you are truly listening to what hes saying
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RockyMtnAspieMom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do a lot of sensory therapy and even tried social stories for "what to do when..." type of situation. You have to read it to him constantly and it still rarely works.

At school he has a full-time aide. All day long. At home, it's me and the boys. Husband always at work. I am tired and cranky today. Sorry to whine. He has been home from school a lot and I feel like I haven't got anything done in almost 2 weeks.

I'm just worn out, that's all.
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RockyMtnAspieMom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triangular_Trees wrote:
He could also be arguin because thats the only way he knows how to have a conversation with you, where he feels you are truly listening to what hes saying


This does happen sometimes when he'll just come right out and say..."no, you don't know what I mean, Mommy...that's not what I mean..." and I will absolutely listen to him when he is trying to explain something that is hard for him to explain. I give him the extra time to spit out his sentence which does take longer than the usual person.

But, it's the "I don't want to go to school, I don't want to take the bus, I don't want to get dressed, I don't want to eat breakfast, I don't want to go to karate" then he argues with teachers and staff and aides at school all day and it is reported to me in his daily tracker, then he argues with the bus driver and then he comes home and it's more "I don't want to do homework, I don't want to eat dinner, I don't want to g ot o bed" Day over.

Then, on the days he does not go to school...he's at home dooing this. And like I said, sometimes he's great. We made Valentines for 25 people tonight and a Valentine mailbox for school tomoroow...got all his homework done. and noargument. I think tonight went well because he has a Valentine Party to look forward to tomorrow and he is happy and had=s nothing to argue about. Tonight, I got Dr. Jekyl...but this morning, he was Mr. Hyde.
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russian
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahhh you sound like my mom...except I'm 23 now...I remember how wrote an article about me, I was homeschooled most of my life, in which she said "the frustrations of working with a child who knows nothing at all, except on the days he knows more than you." Aspies are usually bored as kids I think, give him something CRAZY to do. Tell him to dig a hole in the back yard. that might work.
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RockyMtnAspieMom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

russian wrote:
give him something CRAZY to do. Tell him to dig a hole in the back yard. that might work.



That's too funny! "I don't want to dig a hole!" That's probably what he'd say! hahaha I swear it's because he's bored sometimes.
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gbollard
K’Anpo no... Cho-Je... whatever.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I didn't realize what the arguments were about.

So...

Do a timetable and stick it on the wall.
Include School, Homework etc.

Go over the timetable in the morning before school.

Refer other activities to it. (eg: I need you to get your pyjamas on because its after 6pm and the timetable shows Pyjamas now).

many activities should be Dependant on the previous ones

eg: if he's too slow getting pyjamas on, there will be no time for a book before bed - make sure he knows this.

Resist the temptation to argue back - you can't win, but do you have to win?
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NewportBeachDude
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RockyMtnAspieMom wrote:
But, it's the "I don't want to go to school, I don't want to take the bus, I don't want to get dressed, I don't want to eat breakfast, I don't want to go to karate" then he argues with teachers and staff and aides at school all day and it is reported to me in his daily tracker, then he argues with the bus driver and then he comes home and it's more "I don't want to do homework, I don't want to eat dinner, I don't want to g ot o bed" Day over.



Sounds like Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/oppositional-defiant-disorder/DS00630/DSECTION=2

Yes, it's a real issue. Kids give push back on all fronts and don't know how to regroup or stop negativity or arguing. The teachers at your school should have spotted this, knowing the kid's on the spectrum.

I'd first talk to the Psychologist at the school and get a health check on him. If they're no help, I'd contact a private Psychologist and check into a Behavioral program. Who knows where this will lead, but it could get worse. You can't always bank on kids growing out of this type of thing. You want to make sure you curb it now since he's young.
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Triangular_Trees
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, it's a real issue. Kids give push back on all fronts and don't know how to regroup or stop negativity or arguing. The teachers at your school should have spotted this, knowing the kid's on the spectrum.


Considering she said her son has an aide, I'm guessing he's mainstreamed, which means hes in a classroom with general ed teachers, not special ed ones. General ed teachers are not taught to identify such problems.The most they would be taught is "This kid doesn't act like the others I should write a report to the ____" Fill in blank with nurse/special ed teacher/parent etc. However, since he has an aide, that responsibility to push for testing falls on the aide. At most the teacher would comment to aide about it to write it in her report. Its up to the parents/doctors to decide what to do with the aides notes.

Also in most cases aides are just normal people off the street, who are given minimal training to be an aide and not people trained in special needs (at least in the schools I work in). So the aide also would not recognize this.

I'm a substitute teacher who graduated from a school whose teacher graduates are highly sought after on the East coast, and I didn't know enough to identify ODD until I just read about it tonight. Thinking back I probably encountered a boy with ODD just last week. I mentioned his behavior to the regular teacher (to make sure he did get the recess detention I gave him). She responded that his behavior was "par for the course."
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ster
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh my, sounds like he's stuck.....so very tiring.i agree with making a schedule. go over it with him. let him know that he'll get to do something fun if he sticks to the schedule~at first you mihgt have to settle for a percentage of compliance instead of the whole schedule.....
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RockyMtnAspieMom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everybody...this website is fantastic...the advice I get from all of you. The calendar is not enough anymore. The schedule is going to get bigger...a daily chart. I'm going to try that. Thanks Smile

The ODD looks very much like my son. WHat an absolute sweetheart he was this morning. It's so hard to believe that he is so monstrous sometimes.

Anyway, you guys have been a great deal of help. I do believe that taking a good look at the ODD will be able to help in terms of treatment strategies. He argues quite a bit with his P.E. teacher in school and gets in trouble there quite a bit. I hope I can steer him away from doing that!

Yes he is in a regular classroom with an aide and no his regular teacher does not have a clue. But, she is a nice person and listens when we say "he needs sensory therapy - send him down to the Sped Ed lab!" His 10-minute time out of the regular class and sensory time at the lab definitely helps...but recently I have heard that he argues about going to the lab and doing his therapy even. They also try Behavioral (cognitive replacement therapy) where they ask him questions so as he can try to change his own behavior and he is such a wise-ass when filling out these forms. He is only in first grade, but his attitude and wise-guy answers sound like a 7th grader. It's so embarrassing for me as Mom. Of course I have not taught my child that it is ok to argue and talk back at adults! For God's sake his karate Master would be shocked if he heard this stuff because manners, respect and self-discipline is being taught constantly...but, it's not working! It only works at karate school! They absolutely insist on respect. They demand it. And he listens to them.
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