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nominalist
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: Asperger's Syndrome the Same as Nonverbal Learning Disorder |
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Here is an interesting academic paper which argues that nonverbal learning disorder, dyslogia, semantic pragmatic disorder, etc. are basically alternate, or related, designations for Asperger's. (Other researchers have made similar arguments.) In effect, the writers are suggesting that they are Asperger's seen from different perspectives and, sometimes, fields:
http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/7/4/310
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asplanet
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that as my son was disgnosed with non verbal learning and they said crosses over into aspergers!
So not surprising was a little confussed, so ask Tony Attwood for his view:
Hi Tony
A few people have ask me this and not 100% on answer, would be great full if you could help. "Is Non Verbal Learning Disorder on the Autism Spectrum or not!"
Regards Alyson
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Dear Alyson
Thanks for the message: Non Verbal Learning Disorder has many characteristics similar to Asperger's syndrome, however, it is not in the official diagnostic text book namely the Diagnostical and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Some of the practical strategies used for Non Verbal Learning Disorder are appropriate for those with Asperger's syndrome and vice versa.
Best Wishes TonyAttwood (Jan.0
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pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 52
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I know it's wrong, but something amuses me about semantic pragmatic disorder.. it sounds innocuous enough. |
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LabPet
alchemist
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2858
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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nominalist - I am (somewhat) familiar with what the article you linked is stating - nothing novel. I will not reiterate.
However, as many (most?) inhabitants of WP know, I am virtually non-verbal, at times mute. I am technically a high-functioning autistic, by Dx. I am a chemist and currently in the PhD program, shifting into the neurosciences. Just being objective, not assigning any value judgements, I am 'gifted,' by 'their' definition (IQ = 160+). Irrelevant, actually. I am 100% autistic, regardless.
Anyway: My quetion. I have no Sylvian Fissure. Nominalist, this is certainly correlated with HFA, but the relationship is undefined. Any ideas? I am a bit reticent to reveal this, but I am curious. I have an extraordinarily high genetic propensity to autism as well.
Why?
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nominalist
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LabPet wrote: | Anyway: My quetion. I have no Sylvian Fissure. Nominalist, this is certainly correlated with HFA, but the relationship is undefined. Any ideas? I am a bit reticent to reveal this, but I am curious. I have an extraordinarily high genetic propensity to autism as well.
Why? |
Sorry, but I have no idea. This entire subject is very new to me. I only began studying the autism spectrum after my own diagnosis (this past April). My area of specialization is the sociology of religion.
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nominalist
This WP Supporter climbed the pecking order ;-)
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Location: The Kansas suburbs of Kansas City (originally from NYC)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| asplanet wrote: | | Thanks for that as my son was disgnosed with non verbal learning and they said crosses over into aspergers! |
Interesting. Since it is not in the DSM, is non-verbal learning disorder still diagnosed by psychologists?
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Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. (full-time & tenured sociology professor)
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nominalist
This WP Supporter climbed the pecking order ;-)
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asplanet
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nominalist wrote: | | asplanet wrote: | | Thanks for that as my son was disgnosed with non verbal learning and they said crosses over into aspergers! |
Interesting. Since it is not in the DSM, is non-verbal learning disorder still diagnosed by psychologists? |
I think half the time depending on what information or book the psychologist read is what you get diagnosed with. When I was diagnosed my Clinical Psychologist said "I'm glad you have been referred to me I can now make use my book I brought some time ago! " great for my confidence, as I was still trying to come to terms with the idea.
This is the same Psychologist who diagnosed my son with Non Verbal Learning a few months ago, so yes I do wonder.
But it all costs seeing a real except and they seem to be far and few between.
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Odin
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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When I was 15 my doctor suspected I either had NVLD or AS (I was officially Dx'd with AS a year later). When I asked what the distinction was he said that it had to do with verbal thinking ability. People with NVLD, he said, tend to excel in tasks involving spoken and written language, while autistics tend to have issues with processing spoken verbal information. He also said that people with AS tend to be better at math then people with NVLD, who usually have problems with math and that people with NVLD donlt have the obsessive special interests aspies do.
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nominalist
This WP Supporter climbed the pecking order ;-)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| asplanet wrote: | | This is the same Psychologist who diagnosed my son with Non Verbal Learning a few months ago, so yes I do wonder. |
Wow. That is pretty awful, but, from what I have been reading, it is not unusual. In practice, diagnoses are often made on the basis of the expertise or specialization of the therapist.
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Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. (full-time & tenured sociology professor)
The League to Fight Neurelitism: http://neurelitism.com
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nominalist
This WP Supporter climbed the pecking order ;-)
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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Posts: 1714
Location: The Kansas suburbs of Kansas City (originally from NYC)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: | | When I asked what the distinction was he said that it had to do with verbal thinking ability. People with NVLD, he said, tend to excel in tasks involving spoken and written language, while autistics tend to have issues with processing spoken verbal information. He also said that people with AS tend to be better at math then people with NVLD, who usually have problems with math and that people with NVLD donlt have the obsessive special interests aspies do. |
Interesting. Most people I have read believe that the two are either the same condition or degrees of the same condition. This guy does not seem to make any distinctions:
http://www.nldontheweb.org/Dinklage_1.htm
Personally, I am considerably more verbal than mathematical, but I do have the special interests.
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Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. (full-time & tenured sociology professor)
The League to Fight Neurelitism: http://neurelitism.com
My personal self-advocacy website: http://markfoster.name
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2ukenkerl
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Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 6392
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Odin wrote: | | When I was 15 my doctor suspected I either had NVLD or AS (I was officially Dx'd with AS a year later). When I asked what the distinction was he said that it had to do with verbal thinking ability. People with NVLD, he said, tend to excel in tasks involving spoken and written language, while autistics tend to have issues with processing spoken verbal information. He also said that people with AS tend to be better at math then people with NVLD, who usually have problems with math and that people with NVLD donlt have the obsessive special interests aspies do. |
WOW, I don't know WHERE that puts me! I USED to probably NOT have CAPD, and still don't REALLY have "problems with processing verbal information".
I wasn't that great with math.
Of course, I have had the "obsessive special interests". |
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Odin
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | | Odin wrote: | | When I was 15 my doctor suspected I either had NVLD or AS (I was officially Dx'd with AS a year later). When I asked what the distinction was he said that it had to do with verbal thinking ability. People with NVLD, he said, tend to excel in tasks involving spoken and written language, while autistics tend to have issues with processing spoken verbal information. He also said that people with AS tend to be better at math then people with NVLD, who usually have problems with math and that people with NVLD donlt have the obsessive special interests aspies do. |
WOW, I don't know WHERE that puts me! I USED to probably NOT have CAPD, and still don't REALLY have "problems with processing verbal information".
I wasn't that great with math.
Of course, I have had the "obsessive special interests". |
When I went in for diagnostic tests for an official when I was 16 it was my special interests and my CAPD that convinced my pediatrician (who specializes in kids and teens with developmental disorders, ADHD, and learning disabilities) that I have AS (with co-morbid social anxiety disorder and OCD) and not NVLD. He said that NVLD is a broad, inclusive label for communication and sensory-motor issues that are not related to autistic cognitive traits like a desire for order and routine and obsessive interests.
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Danielismyname
Zombies ate my NT
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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http://pediatricneurology.com/autism.htm
Another take.
I like the graph and conclusion at the bottom of the page.
| Quote: | * Autistic Spectrum disorders are marked by their difficulty in communication/socialization in areas other than the literal meaning of words.
* Once a child has trouble with getting the big picture of communication and socialization, there will often be secondary symptoms such as: anxiety, holding back from peers, a rigid adherence to sameness, a relative preference for things (which are predictable) rather than people, and an appearance of “oddness.”
* Asperger’s and Autism share primarily the difficulty of recognizing the existence of others—trouble with theory of mind. Asperger’s can talk; autism usually has limited speech.
* Asperger’s children appear less interested in forming bonds and have more trouble with “theory of mind” than NVLD and Sematic-Pragmatic Disorder.
* NVLDs are marked by integration problems of pragmatic language gestalt; spatial orientation; and motoric coordination.
* Hyperlexia is marked by fascination with the printed word starting at an early age.
* “High Functioning Autism” is used by different authors to mean either Autistic Disorder with relatively spared speech and cognition; Aspergers’s Syndrome; or PDD-NOS. |
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nominalist
This WP Supporter climbed the pecking order ;-)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, Daniel. I seem to fit all of the characteristics of NVD (including counting the houses as a kid), as this person outlines them. However, I also have the preoccupations/special interests.
On the other hand, Kutchner's view that children with Asperger's autism have no interest in being friends with other kids differs from most writers I have come across. From what I have read, most aspies (myself included) want to have friends. They are just clueless on how to do it.
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The League to Fight Neurelitism: http://neurelitism.com
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Portal to my 25 domains & 23 sites: http://markfoster.net |
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