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oscuria
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:06 am    Post subject: Autistic Thinking and Schizoid PD? Reply with quote

I read that Schizoids exhibit"autistic thinking" and perhaps can be misdiagnosed because of such (and vice versa). Are there any diagnosed schizoids here to better clarify the separation or any with some background with the differences?



I'm beginning to believe that I might be schizoid but I do have certain ASD traits. I'm not sure if my lack of communication/social skills was brought about by my anxieties. I read that Schizoids don't lack the verbal/nonverbal skills that ASD is characterized with, or have much anxiety doing so. I do stim, but stereotypy is not confined to autism.

I'm very lost emotionally, in the sense that I cannot identify with an emotion. I'm very indifferent to opposites, I will not take sides. I don't have a strong family bond, despite the fact that I would never randomly leave them. I am not empathic, but I will put myself through difficult tasks to help a person (this is not empathy for me as I am doing it only because it needs to be done--there is no emotion in the effort). If I feel I am getting too happy, or too sad, I will have to bring myself back to ''equanimity". I can't recall a time I've ever "blown up" in public, although I do have meltdowns at home. I care not for criticisms, whether good or bad, and despite the fact that I "long" for a relationship with others, I don't bother with making friends and remain at a distance. I am an optimistic cynic who values rationale and laughter above everything else.

To end: I just feel like a stranger in this world. Even amongst people that I can relate to. I do see a lot of myself in many of you, but I still doubt myself.

Oh well, respond. Mr. Green
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Fedaykin
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not diagnosed with anything, but consider myself having both AS and a schizoid personality. I've noticed I'm less interested than nearly everyone on this site in aquaintances, though I consider myself more socially adept. The way I see it, you're born with an autistic brain, while this "personality disorder" is something you develop. The DSM is wrong to use the word disorder though - what's wrong with it? I think it's pretty natural for people with AS to develop schizoid personalities, though some might not I guess. Bleuler, who named the schizoid personality(he didn't call it a disorder), was probably observing people with AS whose other differences weren't that visible, since you can learn to interact even with AS. So, I don't see AS and schizoid personality as exclusive.

I'm able to interact with people, but mankind is a bunch of morons, retards and maniacs in my eyes, so I don't. The only problem I experience is a lack of motivation from not having any belief in mankind, I guess. During my childhood, my autistic traits were a lot more visible, while you usually have to know me for a while to realize it now, even if you're a bit familiar with ASD's.
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oscuria
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd consider either AS or SPD a disorder. It pretty much leaves me disorganized and unmotivated.

Currently, I am experiencing both drive and lethargy. I cannot help it. It's been bothering me in my studies. I have exams this week (one in a couple of hours) and I've yet to study given weeks to prepare. I'm way behind, but I can't seem to do anything about it.

I wouldn't consider myself lacking belief in manking, I just don't care much about them. They're more like specimens. I cannot relate to them, so I try to figure them out.
Questions like "What makes them human? What makes me human? How can I possibly be like them?" are in my head when I observe and interact.

This year just got out of hand for me. I seem to know why, but I do not understand how.

A great feeling for isolation is overwhelming me. At the same time I cannot help but want to live up to the expectations of my family.

Confused
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Danielismyname
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The incidence of SPD appears to be 0.5% to 7%; compared to 1/5000 - 1/300 for AS (random fact).

Quote:
# Schizoid: Pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and restriction of emotion in interpersonal settings. Characterized by the following major traits:

* Neither desiring nor enjoying close relationships; choosing solitary activities

* Little interest in sex

* Indifference to praise or criticism

* Emotional frigidity


Quote:
# Schizoid personality disorder: This type of personality disorder is uncommon in clinical settings. A person with this disorder is markedly detached from others and has little desire for close relationships. This person's life is marked by little pleasure in activities. People with this disorder appear indifferent to the praise or criticism of others and often seem cold or aloof.


That's from eMedicine; it's totally different to AS/autism when taken in this context.
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oscuria
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading into SPD for some days now (online references--cant find any interesting ones offline. Know of any?). Here's my interpolation:

1) My actions are different from my thoughts. Even as I am removing myself from any form of relationship, I would still "crave" to be in one.

2) I wouldn't claim that I've little interest in sex, I am interested in it, but I wont partake in any discussions of it. There were even times during sex where I'd actually lose interest.

3) I can be very indifferent to praise and criticism. There are times where I cannot accept either. Sometimes it is considered humble, other times stubborn.

4) I can appear very cold emotionally. My facade is one of confusion, it never shows what is behind it.

5) I often lose interests in the things that drive me. I can go quarter playing the guitar, engulfing myself in music. The following month I won't even look at the guitar.

6) I also rarely experience emotional outburts. I don't recall ever a time I've showed elation, a time where I laughed hysterically, or a time I've shown anger in public (sometimes in private).

Does that sound schizoid or aspie? Laughing
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Odin
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. John Ratey, the author of several popular books on ADD, has claimed that SPD is a form of mild Asperger's.
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zendell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schizoid PD and other personality disorders aren't real medical conditions. They are nothing more than labels that a bunch of people who think they are better than everyone else give to people with personalities they don't approve of. Just because someone doesn't like your personality doesn't give them any right to tell you that you have a personality disorder. The best way to deal with this is to reject psychiatry, refuse their labels, and not worry about it any more.
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zendell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danielismyname wrote:
Quote:
# Schizoid personality disorder: This type of personality disorder is uncommon in clinical settings. A person with this disorder is markedly detached from others and has little desire for close relationships. This person's life is marked by little pleasure in activities. People with this disorder appear indifferent to the praise or criticism of others and often seem cold or aloof.


How about Socialite personality disorder:This type of personality disorder is common in clinical settings. A person with this disorder is markedly attached to others and has too much desire to be around other people. This person's life is marked by little pleasure in solitary activities. People with this disorder appear overly influenced by the praise or criticism of others and often seem cold when dealing with others who don't have the disorder.
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nominalist
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous name for Asperger's (in the DSM-III) was schizoid disorder of childhood or adolescence.
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twoshots
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting that the diagnostic use of "autistic" in the past does not refer to what we now call autism. Very old books I've read refer to "autism" as a symptom, and therefore not a condition, of schizophrenia. Consequently, I think we should take care to be sure that whatever we are reading is not perpetuating the older use of the term. The root comes from some concept of being self oriented rather than social (a notion very noticeably preserved in the Japanese word for autism 自閉症 [ʥi he: ɕo:], meaning roughly "shut into oneself disease").

Generally, after reading up on schizoidism and visiting a forum for schizoid disorder, it does not seem very much like autism at all. The two can be difficult to distinguish diagnostically, and thus why each is listed as needing to be ruled out in diagnostic guidelines for the other.
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Zamone
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DSM-IV-TR defines the two clearly in the differential diagnosis section under Schizoid Personality Disorder. Autism and AS are characterized as seperate by more severely impaired social interactions and stereotyped interests and behaviours.

Last edited by Zamone on Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nominalist
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the DSM-I (under which I was first diagnosed in the early 1960s) and the DSM-II (which came out in 1968), autism, in children, was treated as a symptom of childhood schizophrenia. For those who went to psychiatrists at that time, most people whom we would now call aspies, including me, were diagnosed as schizophrenics. Autism was not listed as a separate condition.
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MusicMaker1
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At one time, before a clinician knew of my PDD diagnosis, he thought I might have had schizoid PD, but that was a misdiagnosis. Also, when some people see the word "schizoid", it seems they immediately assume "schizophrenic" yet they really are quite different. I have never heard voices, had hallucinations or delusions.. Before getting that misdiagnosis, my family had sent me to a state-of-the-art testing facility at a high price and I spent 5 full days undergoing complete neuropsych testing. I was diagnosed with NLD (Non-verbal learning disability for which PDD-NOS is an "umbrella term" that has a diagnostic code, whereas NLD does not have a code yet.. because it isn't in the DSM). Later, another person said she would have diagnosed me with mild Asperger's since she hadn't heard of NLD... Anyway, all of those diagnosis (PDD, NLD, Aspie) are on "the spectrum" and are quite similar in many ways. I have great difficulty with nonverbal communication and understanding subtleties in communication. I sometimes don't understand jokes or can take comments literally... my problems are mostly social.

I like and want to have friends (although I don't have many and it's difficult to trust having been hurt as much as I have).. I've had romantic interests. I've fallen in love before. I feel lonely. these are not true symptoms of someone with schizoid personality disorder.. Apparently, sometimes it can be misdiagnosed in someone on the spectrum if the clinician doesn't look more closely.. I WANT to fit in and/or at least be accepted for who I am.. and I continue to look for that "social circle".... I keep hoping it's out there... somewhere... Being misdiagnosed has been painful, but I know I have NLD (also sometimes known as "mild asperger's")..
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metalab
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my research and my experience I believe that autism and schizophrenia are the exact same thing. Just that like, a schizophrenic I think is an autistic who due to some chain of events and interactions managed to develop a usable 'normal' front. Went for years basically emulating 'normal' until there underlying tendencies start poking back through and they remember, this is not really what they are and they have a break.

I'm actually quite envious of the autistics who became autistic young and managed to stay autistic. Because I personally in late life had a sort of break, which did feel exactly like remembering my childhood. It did align nearly exactly with schizophrenic description, but the thing about it was, it was just like remembering what I was like when I was child, which I have always been very odd and funky. So I don't say that underlying schizo tendencies were released, instead I say underlying autism surfaced. Like I said, they seem interchangeable to me. But people are much more understanding/sympathetic to autism. Probably because it's associated with children... not young adults who just freak out and proclaim everything is screwed up and make things 'diffucult'.

I notice that, I have a peculiar ability in word articulation, I have been able to speak very effectively since I was young, which is why I think I got absorbed into the 'normal' facade very easily, because I could speak and understand the normal-esque language and conversations very well. But my thought process and way I would get my brain to interact with normal conversations was very weird... I was emulating it, not speaking real feelings. No one understood me when I just spoke how I felt.
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nominalist
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalab wrote:
From my research and my experience I believe that autism and schizophrenia are the exact same thing.


From my reading of the literature, autistics are not under significantly more risk for developing schizophrenia than the general population. It was this finding, among others, which led to distinguishing autism from childhood schizophrenia.
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29 domains/21 books: www.markfoster.net
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Radio: www.markalanfoster.com
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