matsuiny2004
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Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Posts: 1634
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: religous intolerance |
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| why do people from neo con parties have such a problem with cultural diversity and religious diversity? It is not like their religion or culture is left out they need to be respected just like the others. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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The problem that neocons have with diversity is that they see diversity as undermining society.
"If you have standards, moral standards, you have to want to make them prevail, and at the very least you have to argue in their favor. Now, show me where libertarians have argued in some comprehensive way for a set of moral standards. ... I don't think morality can be decided on the private level. I think you need public guidance and public support for a moral consensus. The average person has to know instinctively, without thinking too much about it, how he should raise his children." - Irving Kristol
They want one standard to run society and to be tolerant of others is to undermine that ideal and in their minds, it is to destroy society. I think that many neoconservatives really don't care about the specific culture that the US has, so long as it is nationalistic, and promotes solid communal ties as neoconservatives really are not religious conservatives but rather societal controllers.
"Neo-conservatives are unlike old conservatives because they are utilitarians, not moralists, and because their aim is the prosperity of post-industrial society, not the recovery of a golden age." - Irving Kristol |
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Fred2670
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Posts: 419
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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I am only intolerant of intolerant religions
which seek to dominate all religions.
I am only intolerant of intolerant cultures
which seek to dominate all cultures.
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GreatCeleryStalk
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Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Age: 27
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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It's a question of dominance. If other religious or cultural groups have a chance to get the upper hand and become the dominant culture or religion then it means that the current dominant group loses its place.
So despite the fact that the majority of Americans profess some sort of Christian belief it's beneficial for some Christian groups to claim persecution or oppression; they remain a part of national discourse and receive attention that they otherwise would not.
With conservative political ideologies, it's a similar sort of thing.
In some cases it's also a fear of change. Religions and political ideologies (much like everything else) are constantly changing, and people who take conservative views tend to hold on to an idea of "real X" and make a lot of noise about how the change in "X" is going to be detrimental to society and cause all kinds of problems. |
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zendell
Art of Zen
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: Re: religous intolerance |
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| matsuiny2004 wrote: | | why do people from neo con parties have such a problem with cultural diversity and religious diversity? It is not like their religion or culture is left out they need to be respected just like the others. |
Conservatives and Christians don't have any problems with cultural or religious diversity. Most people seem to misunderstand what they say. |
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Sand
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Posts: 9532
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Some religions encourage practices which society in general finds abusive. Because these practice are proposed under religious circumstances which usually means that they are not to be criticized because an assumed higher power requires them is not a tolerable excuse for society in general which discourages abuses of women and children and animals, human sacrifice, torture to force belief, etc. Although the religion in question may accuse society of persecution, society, it seems to me, has the right to limit or forbid certain religious procedures if they violate generally accepted standards. |
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history_of_psychiatry
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Age: 26
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: religous intolerance |
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| matsuiny2004 wrote: | | why do people from neo con parties have such a problem with cultural diversity and religious diversity? It is not like their religion or culture is left out they need to be respected just like the others. |
I agree. It's because most cons are practitioners of biblical faiths. Christians believe that only they are the true path. So do muslims. Jews believe they are the chose people. These are all generalizations i know, but they are pretty true. If you belong to a religion that believes only YOU are they true path, you aren't going to have very much tolerance for other belief systems.
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Delirium
Girl from the County Hell
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Age: 20
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: religous intolerance |
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| history_of_psychiatry wrote: | | matsuiny2004 wrote: | | why do people from neo con parties have such a problem with cultural diversity and religious diversity? It is not like their religion or culture is left out they need to be respected just like the others. |
I agree. It's because most cons are practitioners of biblical faiths. Christians believe that only they are the true path. So do muslims. Jews believe they are the chose people. These are all generalizations i know, but they are pretty true. If you belong to a religion that believes only YOU are they true path, you aren't going to have very much tolerance for other belief systems. |
The "chosen people" thing isn't what you think it is. It actually means that they were chosen to follow G-d's laws. Gentiles can get into heaven too.
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snake321
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| "belief systems". I still feel that the big word there are "systems". Until people get out of having to be pigeon-holed and categorized, until people stop relying on "systems" to tell them what to think or how to behave, people will not have a grasp on the true balance of freedom and responsibility. Nobody can truely call themselves "free" when their every thought is dictated by a system. Be it religion, or PCness, or even science for that matter. A free mind is an analytical, critical mind. Not being afraid of the alienation of non-conformity. The ego is just something to be exploited and used to categorize people and pitt them against one another by the people at the top. But that's my opinion on it. |
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Fred2670
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Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Posts: 419
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: religous intolerance |
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| zendell wrote: |
Conservatives and Christians don't have any problems with cultural or religious diversity. Most people seem to misunderstand what they say. |
The Pope is currently touring America these days. Yes he apologized for the homosexual perversion of his priesthood which was nice, but his goal here is to plead the case of amesty for the impoverished and unassimilating hordes of illegal aliens who are currently stealing jobs from middleclass Americans and soaking up social services which were not intended for them.
Would the Pope be here pleading amnesty for Mexican nationals if the vast majority of them were not Catholic? Does the Pope know that thanks to certain Catholic rules regarding birth control, Mexican nationals are outbreeding every other race of people in America? Does the Pope know that Latinos only vote for Latinos and that when their voting block is big enough the leadership, laws, language, and culture in America will reflect this? Does the Pope yearn for the day when America, due to an overwhelming Latino influence, gives up democracy in favor of a Vatican run theocracy?
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MysteryFan3
Ex-COBOL dinosaur. roar.
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Age: 53
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: religous intolerance |
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| matsuiny2004 wrote: | | why do people from neo con parties have such a problem with cultural diversity and religious diversity? It is not like their religion or culture is left out they need to be respected just like the others. |
Easy money. The Christian extremists in the U.S., for example, have an effective and vocal lobby with lots of money for campaign contributions. There are similar situations in Israel and Islamic countries.
In any case, the politicians take the money and lead their supporters with superstition in place of genuine religious guidance. Nothing but a power play, and it works like a charm.
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Sand
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Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who grew up in a New York of a multitude of different ethnic origins, each with their individual differences, I cannot but feel violently offended by characterizing the latest immigration surge as over-fertile Latinos stealing the basic good of the States. I do not like the general noisiness of the Latinos nor that that they undercut the wages of Americans who cannot accept the low wages that Latinos take to work in the States but the guilt is not to be ascribed to the Latinos who have their own culture which I respect and do not have to indulge in. To characterize their willingness to work for the lousy compensation that other Americans refuse as "stealing jobs" is vicious and extremely unfair. In an atmosphere of free competition they compete and win which is the currently accepted atmosphere of capitalist America. If Americans find this unfair they should pass laws that ensure that these low wages are illegal and that they be set at a level which will permit Americans who need higher wages to compete.
If the Latin Americans are found to be too fertile perhaps the China policy of one child per family enforced by the government would be more to the likes of the writer. I personally don't like this, but certainly there are too many people in the world and something should be done. |
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snake321
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Well, I can't really be in support of illegal immigration, because it's gonna bring us to an economic collapse. I mean it's really as simple as this: rules exist for a reason, for the safety and prosperity of the group (or that's how it's supposed to be). These illegals coming over the border, we know nothing about them, we have no earthly idea how many people are living in our country because of all these unknown people. And for all we know, many of them could be ax murderers. Lets say an illegal comes over here and kills someone... It's gonna be hard to convict someone who doesn't exist on record, and who has no known DNA.
Plus they work for wages that many citizens can not afford to work for. This takes jobs from American citizens. Before someone says "they work jobs nobody else wants to work", most day-to-day citizens working at fast food establishments or restaraunts or super markets or what have you, making 7 or 8 dollars and hour, would love to work at a construction site, getting paid helluva lot more money, $10.00 an hour or more.
And I also think that it's bull that some desk jobs and even retail work requires people to learn Spanish, because we're not moving to them, they are moving to us. I'm not gonna move to Japan and tell everyone "stop what your doing and learn my language, if not I'll call you a racist". What kind of asinine sh** is that? If anyone is being racist in that situation, it's the latinos.
I mean don't get me wrong, I understand some redneck hillbillies are using this as an excuse to be racist. And those people are total idiots. But the issue in itself is not an issue of race, it's an issue of economics. I'd like to help Mexico, but in a way that doesn't hurt us. Starting with getting rid of NAFTA.
But to those who come over here stomping the streets and burning our flags, I personally don't want a flag to represent me, but the point of the matter is it's done to be disrespectful. It's done to state "hey, we're crashing the party, but you'll learn to adopt to us, we don't have to adopt to you". It's an economic invasion. The whole thing is racist against whites honestly. Well, whites and blacks, but it's usually pinned on whites more because we're the majority. Americans though. |
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Sand
Phoenix
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Posts: 9532
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Timothy McVeigh was no Latino. The occurrence of ax murderers is probably no more common amongst Latinos than legal Americans as the school shootings do not indicate a Latino lean. These people do the dirty work and keep the agricultural system going at low wages because those are the wages offered. See to it that the wages and working conditions are raised and no doubt legal Americans will take the jobs. If the problem is lousy opportunities in Latin American countries, perhaps the USA should see to it that the corporations (American and otherwise) give the people there a decent living and they won't have to sneak into the USA to get a living. It's one world and when conditions in one part craps on the population a reaction can be expected. |
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snake321
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Age: 31
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Sand wrote: | | Timothy McVeigh was no Latino. The occurrence of ax murderers is probably no more common amongst Latinos than legal Americans as the school shootings do not indicate a Latino lean. |
That isn't the point though, we can prosecute people we know, who are here legally, and who are on record. It's hard to prosecute someone that is a virtual unknown, no record of them existing, no DNA, no nothing. |
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