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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3161
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: *Addictions/ Obsessions/ Perseverations and Vocation!* |
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When did the tide turn so that what used to be called vocation, used to be admired as dedication, used to be envied by those with no inner drive to do anything, became obsessions, perseverations, addictions, compulsions and signs of mental disorder?
I think it might have something to do with the defensive emphasis that has been increasingly put on ( completely illusory, contra -causal, supposedly independent of environment, biology, or experience, ) "free will" in the last 20-30 years.
As a result all behaviours which seem to be "out of control" of their "owners , which seem to "take someone over", which get in the way of social obedience/conformity/routines, are now denigrated, labelled in such a way as to alarm or depress anyone who has them.
Almost everyone who is driven, obliged almost, to carry on writing or reading or investigating, or looking, or painting, or crafting or collecting, or thinking or walking, is now seen as someone dysfunctional or disordered, or at best as harmlessly eccentric.
Once upon a time people respected this kind of behaviour. It was called vocation, and was a gift, but if I write and read on wrongplanet for hours every day this is just "addiction". This is not, could not be, some kind of important work which I am compelled to do. Of course not... 
But what is the difference?
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Last edited by ouinon on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 6991
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good question.
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ManErg
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 436
Location: Searching for diamonds in a sulphur mine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: *Addictions/ Obsessions/ Perseverations and Vocation!* |
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| ouinon wrote: | | When did the tide turn so that what used to be called a vocation, used to be admired as dedication, used to be envied by those with no inner drive to do anything, became obsessions, perseverations, addictions, compulsions and signs of mental disorder? |
It's been a gradual change over at least 100 years. I think local advertising that eventually grew into mass media is a key driver behind this. From simply advertising goods, to whole lifestyles, it's good to have a more predictable market before you take the investment risk.
Speculating that as technology has made the world 'smaller', all countries are becoming more alike. City centres and the people in them are so very similar throughout huge parts of the world. Not so long ago every town, every county had it's local flavour. This is now largely gone and we are simply less used to encountering difference.
The world of the last few hundred years has been built largely as a businessmans paradise. With the occasional social project to patch up the problems. And the extra work for the psychiatric professions is a result of this.
It may be a two-pronged attack in that on the one hand, all those diversity's you list become more obvious and hence problematical in a largely uniform culture. On the other hand, the absurd pressure's we're subject to may be increasing these diversity's - and the more dangerous ones, too.
| ouinon wrote: | I think it might have something to do with the defensive emphasis that has been increasingly put on ( completely illusory, contra -causal, supposedly independent of environment, biology, or experience, ) "free will" in the last 20-30 years.
As a result all behaviours which seem to be "out of control" of their "owners , which seem to "take someone over", which get in the way of social obedience/conformity/routines, are now denigrated, labelled in such a way as to alarm or depress anyone who has them. |
I don't understand what you're saying here Our culture at least pays lip service to the words "free will" and anything to do with "freedom". Although I believe the greatest minds of all time can never actually agree on a definition of it  I see our pragmatic use of "free will" as being very loose, almost a euphemism for something else. Just another advertising slogan.
Maybe linked to the 'positive thinking' approach - that irritates me immensely  "You are free to be whatever you want to be just think positive happy thoughts". Puts all blame for anything wrong in your life firmly back on your shoulders. The big assumption is that you can control EVERY aspect of your life - if only you buy into whichever self-appointed guru is selling the course this week.
The reality of "out of control" behavior is in stark contrast to this viewpoint.
| oiunon wrote: | Almost everyone who is driven, obliged almost, to carry on writing or reading or investigating, or looking, or painting, or crafting or collecting, or thinking or walking, is now seen as someone dysfunctional or disordered, or at best as harmlessly eccentric.
Once upon a time people respected this kind of behaviour. It was called vocation, and was a gift, but if I write and read on wrongplanet for hours every day this is just "addiction". This is not, could not be, some kind of important work which I am compelled to do. Of course not...
But what is the difference?
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I've noticed that these alternate activities cease to be odd and become respectable if you either have financial gain and/or social status through them. That's one difference. If you alone spent 8 hours a day indulging in a useless activity like hitting a ball with a stick, you'd be classed as mentally ill. However, if you become so good at hitting the ball with a stick and join a social group of other ball-hitters-with-sticks and you become a professional cricketer, then you get respected and you're on everyone's party invites 
My twisted view is that NT's are addicted too. But they are only addicted to one thing: social status and the acquisition thereof. Everything else is subordinate to this primary mission. Some of them live this 24/7 for their whole lives and don't notice because everyone they see is doing it too. Until they encounter someone who does an activity for their own satisfaction, not because it will make them look good to others. This activity may even look 'odd' and there is no financial or social gain, so it sets up a conflict inside this typical NT. Of course NT's are on a spectrum too!
EDIT: It's not just NT's It's almost everybody. We Aspies are also obsessed with social status, just not so good at ever acquiring it.
And the world hasn't stopped changing yet. No doubt there will be more interesting 'disorders' discovered in the future.
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Starr
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever happened to the 'interestingly eccentric'? It's as though everything has become psychologized these days, given a title and classed it as a 'symptom'.
Perhaps society is becoming more shallow and doesn't value any kind of study in depth? Or become souless - we are not supposed to feel fascination for anything. Just not rational/logical to waste time on stuff that's not productive? Just a thought. |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 50
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Put rats in a cage with an unlimited food supply and they overpopulate and start killing each other.
We might fare no better.
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"Great knowing is slow and capacious, small knowing is sly and capricious. Great words blaze with distinction, small words amaze making distinctions."
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3161
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MrMark wrote: | | Put rats in a cage with an unlimited food supply and they overpopulate and start killing each other. We might fare no better. |
I don't understand what you mean by this.
| ManErg wrote: | | I don't understand what you're saying here. Our culture at least pays lip service to the words "free will"... |
I think that our culture does more than pay lip service to belief in free will. It is practically founded upon the concept.
And has become increasingly hostile to anything which threatens the validity of this belief since Darwin's Theory painted our position in the universe rather differently to hitherto.
So people who were once valued for their driven interest in or obsession with certain narrow activities or subjects, are now unwelcome, because reminders of how "great"/autonomous the apparently "unfree" can be.
The fashion is, as you pointed out, to stress our "freedom to be/do whatever we want to be/do" etc. People who are too obviously, unashamedly, blatantly, persistently, even worse, gladly, driven by anything, ( except desire for money ), are increasingly pathologised.
The irony is that as society attempts to shore up faith/belief in free will, people in general are becoming more and more driven by, addicted to, dependent on outside stimuli, ( including , as you say, other people), rather than inner.
The market, with its proud reiterations about of "freedom of choice" maintains the illusion of free will, by producing more and more bewildering varieties of external stimuli.
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
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Age: 50
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | | MrMark wrote: | | Put rats in a cage with an unlimited food supply and they overpopulate and start killing each other. We might fare no better. |
I don't understand what you mean by this. |
Put a male rat and a female rat in a cage, with an unlimited supply of food, and they will overpopulate, become very aggressive, and start killing each other.
As our population continues to grow, with continuing advances in technology that allow us to feed the masses, we may become very aggressive and start killing each other.
In fact, on a limited basis, we already are very aggressive and killing each other.
This was in response to Starr's post.
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"Great knowing is slow and capacious, small knowing is sly and capricious. Great words blaze with distinction, small words amaze making distinctions."
- from The Zhuang-zi (Chuang Tzu) |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3161
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MrMark wrote: | | ouinon wrote: | | MrMark wrote: | | Put rats in a cage with an unlimited food supply and they overpopulate and start killing each other. We might fare no better. |
I don't understand what you mean by this. |
As our population continues to grow, with continuing advances in technology that allow us to feed the masses, we may become very aggressive and start killing each other. This was in response to Starr's post. |
Ok, thanks.
Do you think that discouraging/disparaging/pathologising driven behaviour which is ( relatively) independent of social triggers may be a safety mechanism which cuts in to reduce conflict, (once population reaches a certain density), then?
So the situation for all non-typicals ( particularly inner-directed) is likely to carry on getting worse rather than better? 
Despite plentiful food etc, the population-pressure makes this one of those "limiting" environments which tends to wipe out diversity? And produce one successful type.   
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"Life is pain; anyone who says different is selling something" |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
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Age: 50
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure I don't know.
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"Great knowing is slow and capacious, small knowing is sly and capricious. Great words blaze with distinction, small words amaze making distinctions."
- from The Zhuang-zi (Chuang Tzu) |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3161
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MrMark wrote: | | I'm sure I don't know. |
Well you should, what did they make you a mod for otherwise? !! 
In humans aggressivity needn't take the form of killing in order to return population levels to something less stressful; we are far too 'civilised" for that.
The aggressivity is perhaps being expressed already in "labels" for certain mental types, which will act to exclude/discourage people from breeding, etc, and the environment is becoming more difficult for certain people, notably AS/highly sensitive, to survive or flourish in.
Either way I read about how pops under pressure wipe out diversity. Only the most adapted survive, until a later more lenient time.
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ManErg
Velociraptor
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 436
Location: Searching for diamonds in a sulphur mine
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | Despite plentiful food etc, the population-pressure makes this one of those "limiting" environments which tends to wipe out diversity? And produce one successful type.
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On another thread I posted a link to a site with some crazy, but sensible, ideas on how we have created a culture of "artificial scarcity". The essentials of life are not scarce, even for 6 billion people. But when everybody wants, or thinks they need more and more and more junk with some kind of imagined value produced from the raw materials, then a third of the world starves to feed the compulsion of 5% to have "another" car and "another" house.
Like a Victorian judge, I like long sentences
We have been in survival mode for so many thousands of years, we haven't noticed that we are not fighting anything other than ourselves any more.
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BazzaMcKenzie
Wild colonial man
Joined: Aug 22, 2006
Age: 48
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Location: the Antipodes
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ouinon wrote: | | I think that our culture does more than pay lip service to belief in free will. It is practically founded upon the concept. ... So people who were once valued for their driven interest in or obsession with certain narrow activities or subjects, are now unwelcome, because reminders of how "great"/autonomous the apparently "unfree" can be. |
I agree. As cities become larger, they want everyone more compliant and controllable. There is less tolerance for anyone different.
| Starr wrote: | | Whatever happened to the 'interestingly eccentric'? It's as though everything has become psychologized these days, given a title and classed it as a 'symptom'. |
I think that if something can be called a "Syndrome" or otherwise be given a medical type label, the multinational drug companies can sell something said to be able to treat an otherwise common human condition.
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Strewth!
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Sorenna
Toucan
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: *Addictions/ Obsessions/ Perseverations and Vocation!* |
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| ouinon wrote: | | When did the tide turn so that what used to be called vocation, used to be admired as dedication, used to be envied by those with no inner drive to do anything, became obsessions, perseverations, addictions, compulsions and signs of mental disorder? |
This came about when mental health and physcial health became HUGE business. Greed, my friend.
When they can get $120 an hour to say that your gait is off they will. WHen they can get twice that much to drug you because you blow your nose more than once a day, they will. |
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Greentea
Bull in China Shop par Excellence!
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 2238
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Obsessions, addictions, perseverations and vocations are still very much encouraged. Only it's just for things that can be bought - cars, cell phones, playstations, new breasts or noses, etc. People invest their time and energy in those very much, no less obsessively. What's strongly discouraged nowadays is any pastime that keeps you away from the stores.
And as ManErg wrote, diversity is discouraged in order to have a uniform mass consumer market.
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