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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 9471
Location: Somerset UK
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: The Haven - a comment |
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As the forum title says: "For those times when you're feeling blue and need to get a little help from your friends. Discuss all those issues that are not covered by the other forums in the Coping in life category."
There has recently been an incident with a troll. I will not be mentioning the username,or any other usernames involved, but it will be trivial to work them out.
The troll joined a month ago and made a small number of posts (mostly here in The Haven) that suggested it (I'm going for non-gender) was female, and was being stalked in some unspecified manner. They subsequently suggested other problems, such as self-harm and suicide.
Some members treated it (the troll) quite cynically. When these members do this in future, there is a strong possibility that they will immediately be banned, The Haven is not the place for cynicism.
Most members acted in good faith, and provided support. These members are to be commended for their generosity.
A day ago, the troll "unmasked" itself as male and suggested it was a complete fraud. It was then fed copiously by the cynics, saying "I told you so", and some of the remaining group, who I think were rather disillusioned by the incident.
The posts from the cynics were pointless.
The posts from the supportive members were a pity, as it would have been much better to let the troll disappear without a trace (which may yet be arranged).
I would strongly urge the members that felt cheated by the troll to move on, and completely forget it. It is of no consequence, other than a small waste of your time, versus the good you do for other, genuine members.
True compassion costs nothing.
A troll, stealing your kindness, becomes poorer.
I do wonder what the troll felt it gained? I hope its actions have not resulted in any of our supportive members providing less generously of themselves, as the net result would then be that individuals in genuine need of help might receive less. Ultimately, maybe yet another person would commit suicide. I would have no qualms about laying that result squarely at the feet of the troll.
Finally, I see no problem with some lightness in The Haven, but never let that stray from laughing WITH people to laughing AT them.
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The above are my personal views. I do not spend much time in The Haven, as I don't feel as capable as those I see here. I certainly see its worth, as a place where members under some pressure can vent, and receive support and constructive criticism. |
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Aaron_Mason
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 04, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 663
Location: Bathurst, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Hear hear.
I, and many others, are grateful for the existence of The Haven, and it is sad when a small minority feel that they have the right to trample all over something that is so vital to the mental and emotional well-being of others.
I will press on and keep being as supportive as I can be. No troll will ever change that.
_________________
We are one, we are strong... the more you hold us down, the more we press on - Creed, "What If"
AS is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
I'm the same as I was when I was six years old - Modest Mouse |
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JerryHatake
Mason Athletics Super Fan Enough Said
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 10896
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Aaron_Mason wrote: | Hear hear.
I, and many others, are grateful for the existence of The Haven, and it is sad when a small minority feel that they have the right to trample all over something that is so vital to the mental and emotional well-being of others.
I will press on and keep being as supportive as I can be. No troll will ever change that. |
Agree with you there 200%.
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"Just remember, their fans think their players are supermen. Well we're the kryptonite, and we're gonna win." Jim Larranaga |
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just-me
its gonna be legendary!!!
Joined: Mar 07, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 1772
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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The haven is a wonderfll place where I get help but also give help where I can . so yay for the haven!
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Just-you is my boyfriend
I'm a Minnow!
<(' ~ ')>
~~~~ ~~ ~~~
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MissConstrue
Has left WP.
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Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Posts: 16635
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, I'm just a little annoyed that I wasted my time giving support to this person from personal experiences.
But I was also annoyed before knowing they were a troll, some of the crud that was going on.
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Nexus
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 622
Location: Moved to ZOMG Aspies
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Sorry but I feel things on this board are getting carried away here, especially in this forum. I was here back in 2006 and it was no way near as bad as it is now, at least back then the environment was reasonable, calm and realistic. Now it's downright similar to an totalitarian cult-like nature being exerted here.
This is suppose to be a support site and should have some realism to it, not a dictatorship with citizens in a fantasy land who need to be over-protected. Sorry but this site is starting to fail in in a purpose to genuinely help people who truly need it (and only favoring people who crave sympathy like a addictive drug), and is becoming nothing more than a giant self-pity party. I'm worried because it's fueling potential for suicidal tendencies as the excessive depressing overtones and saturation of sympathy are detrimental to people's psychological health over time. Some people do need a dose of reality (and maybe initial sympathy at first, but no more), instead of constant sympathy really, especially those who complain about the most generic and simplest problems in life purely in self-pity (in which all humans have every day). Also you don't truly learn anything in life without some level of exposure, suffering, criticism or deviation from status quo to motivate to improve your lifestyle, and prove those harassing you wrong that you are determine to succeed and prevail; and who cares what anyone thinks of you. If you can't handle it, go and see a professional psychiatrist, therapist or psychologist or two, instead of relying on a bunch of internet users, because believe me, if you get depressed over everything and can't control it (and no-one is helping you here well enough), they're likely something more wrong with you than just being AS/Autistic, and either need to be told some solid advice or given medication for it.
If this opinion gets me banned, I don't care but someone needed to finally say it, because I don't know about anyone else, but I do care about WP's public reputation and for the people who legitimately have problems (but are denied honesty from members). I care mainly because you cannot create a false environment of over-sheltering people from every trivial joke, remark, criticism or insult and coat over their problems with constant sympathy instead of actual honest advice (some of which might be considered brutal), because it's not going to help anyone psychologically by doing so in the long run. I should know, I've been a victim of self-pity and was in a severe depression because of it, and what I needed wasn't sympathy to cure my depression, but someone to tell me to STFU and deal with it in a nice way, and actually tell me what I was doing was wrong and need to focus on better things in life.
Also before anyone says it, I don't care about status quo, besides this website has a responsibility to maintain a reasonable reputation to the public that visits it, and I'm afraid if things don't relax and change to have a more realistic attitude instead of this overwhelming sympathy crap, this website will become deterring for people who may have legitimate issues to join or those who are more brutally honest and might contribute something valuable here. After all, there's nothing worse than having a serious problem that needs sound advice, but you only receive sympathy, idiots spamming up the thread with their off-topic crap, or how people relate to your problem instead.
By the way, one last thing, the key words in what this says, doesn't mention about anyone not being allowed to give brutally honest advice:
| Quote: | | "For those times when you're feeling blue and need to get a little help from your friends. Discuss all those issues that are not covered by the other forums in the Coping in life category." |
If anything it says the keywords, "Help", "Coping" and "life", which should also mean allowing honest and strong advice to snap someone out of a dangerous train of depressive self-pity thought that would otherwise will harm them (and maybe resort to them committing suicide over time); and this type of advice shouldn't be considered as an attack at all, if the intentions are purely kind and to try and help someone. Yes, obvious personal insults are not right, but telling someone to "Snap out of it!" and followed by given strong advice in a calm way can't be seen as offensive.
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"Have a nice apocalypse" - Southland Tales |
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CanyonWind
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 1881
Location: West of the Great Divide
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm starting to wonder if there's anybody else around here who can take a joke. I thought it was funny.
No, I didn't figure it out. I was totally fooled. I was especially impressed by how the picture so perfectly matched the fictional character. The whole idea of good fiction is to fool the audience into thinking it's real.
I didn't see much about it that could be called trolling. It wasn't intended to piss people off, except when the guy announced it at the end and said the people who were fooled were dumb, but I didn't feel dumb.
I didn't post in that thread. I find it impossible to sympathize with those women who need to bring a wheelbarrow to the mall because they buy more makeup than they can carry, then they spend hours putting it on so thick that they're so artificial you have no idea what they actually look like, then they complain that the guys they get involved with are less than entirely genuine and they say that "all guys are like that."
Obviously, this doesn't apply to all women. I believe both genders have an equal number of people whose thinking is totally screwed up.
But the whole thing seemed more to me like an april fool's joke than a troll.
_________________
They murdered boys in Mississippi. They shot Medgar in the back.
Did you say that wasn't proper? Did you march out on the track?
You were quiet, just like mice. And now you say that we're not nice.
Well thank you buddy for your advice...
-Malvina |
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 9471
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Nexus wrote: | | ... If this opinion gets me banned... |
Your minority opinion is noted. Should this site not be "brutal" (your word) enough for you, you have the option to go to a site more to your taste.
Other than complaining that WP is not "realistic" enough for you, I actually don't see that you have expressed any opinions (although, reading between your lines, it sounds as if you think bullying and ridicule should be the norm). Maybe I missed them, in the other places where you have posted this same message.
I haven't heard anyone complaining about you, and in neither this, nor another of your recent long posts that I noticed, did I see anything worthy of a ban. You would have to do something against the rules, and (other than some difficultly with restraining your language) I haven't heard of you doing that. If you are breaking the rules, somewhere, please tell me where.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer |
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 60
Posts: 9471
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| CanyonWind wrote: | | I'm starting to wonder if there's anybody else around here who can take a joke. I thought it was funny. |
There are many here who can take a joke. There are also many who have great trouble doing that. Do you truly think that mocking people is funny?
| CanyonWind wrote: | | The whole idea of good fiction is to fool the audience into thinking it's real. |
I'm not sure I follow this. You seem to be talking about fraud, not fiction.
The rest of your post lost me.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer |
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googa01
Butterfly
Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 12
Location: Groot Eylandt
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| My my, I wonder what that was about? I'm new here so I am yet to work out what is going on. Somebody said something about a joke; I wonder if it is anything like the kinds of jokes that our elders used to tell at our corroborees back in the 1950s and 60s, when I was a little nipper. Or was it one of those naughty ones that the white-fellas told at the pubs on a Saturday night? Whatever it was, it must have stirred some people up. |
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Nexus
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 622
Location: Moved to ZOMG Aspies
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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You don't even understand what I'm trying to say nor why I said it.
I was basically saying that people are not going to learn the true nature of society if they don't see it for what it is, and I meant brutal honesty. Hate to say it, but this overtly over-protective nature of this board does NOT represent true society, and thus will not help anyone learn anything to truly recover from their problems making it no longer a support site, but a farce that can potentially harm people. You along with all of the authority figures are failing the true people who really need help by providing an environment that is a fraud, and endorsing emotionally dysfunctional people who are clearly seeking attention in self-pity to give sympathy, advice, etc to people who have legitimate problems. Worst of all you over-protective people who need a harsh dose of reality instead of more pity.
This isn't about me at all, otherwise I wouldn't bother posting all that; this is about the overall psychological health of ALL members here being potentially compromised by a corrupted system of mods who clearly don't know what they're doing; who seem to think that totalitarian measures and endorsing behaviors that can propagate unnecessary emotional distress are the right things to do. You have no idea how negative, depressing and disturbing this website present itself to the general community at large. If this website didn't have a public reputation to uphold, I wouldn't waste my time here saying something about it!
Support means to help people to cope in society for what it is and give them solid advice whenever it's relevant to truly help them; not shower them with useless sympathy, petty talk or endorsing antics of people who whine about everyday issues constantly.
Not to mention, arbitrarily banning people for having a crack shot at a mod is lame, what are you, mods of a support site who can be easy going and respectful and impartial to ALL members (even if some of them are slightly mean), or sensitive incompetent fools who cannot handle harsh criticism because you think you're gods and protect only one type of people who are all emo? You should all be demoted for incompetency and for running this place into the ground.
I'm no a**-kisser because I'm tired of it, I am not going to be someone who pretends to kiss your a** or any authority here and pretend everything is okay, especially when I fell the mentality here is emotionally harmful and promoting a delusion. As I said once before, "You can kill with too much kindness", because some people need a wake up call from their self-pity whining of everyday life, not more sympathy to make them become dependent like a drug addict. This board need to be more relaxed and committed to only help those you truly need it (I mean people who are homeless, in legal disputes, suffering a real medical problem, understand social issues, had a relative or pet die, in a abusive relationship, or household or a situation that doesn't happen so often, things like that.) It should NOT feed self-pity people who whine about everyday life of things we ALL suffer from (oh someone called me stupid, oh someone said my bum looks too big), intentionally or accidentally leeching off other people's positivity and thus emotionally dragging those who help them down with them.
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"Have a nice apocalypse" - Southland Tales |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 10110
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Nexus wrote: | | I was basically saying that people are not going to learn the true nature of society if they don't see it for what it is, and I meant brutal honesty. |
This is your opinion.
| Nexus wrote: | | arbitrarily banning people for having a crack shot at a mod is lame. |
This is your opinion on drugs. 
No one has been banned arbitrarily or for having a crack shot at a mod. Trolls have been banned for trolling and members have been banned for repeated violations of the rules.
_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson |
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MrMark
Abstract Data Type
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 10110
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I guess I agree with your opinion on drugs, because we'd have to remove moderators for that sort of thing. 
_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson |
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googa01
Butterfly
Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 12
Location: Groot Eylandt
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mr Nexus: I read your comment, but you left out about how our people were killed off when the invaders landed here in 1788, and when the white-fellas stole our kids back before I was born. We didn't get recognition until 1967, and some of us are still treated like second class people, so much that we have become alkies and petrol-sniffers. We have the worst social health of anyone, so until anyone can see what it is like from our side, then they don't know what suffering is. I get by OK, I try not to let it bother me. |
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Nexus
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 622
Location: Moved to ZOMG Aspies
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| googa01 wrote: | | Mr Nexus: I read your comment, but you left out about how our people were killed off when the invaders landed here in 1788, and when the white-fellas stole our kids back before I was born. We didn't get recognition until 1967, and some of us are still treated like second class people, so much that we have become alkies and petrol-sniffers. We have the worst social health of anyone, so until anyone can see what it is like from our side, then they don't know what suffering is. I get by OK, I try not to let it bother me. |
Well that's good to hear you are doing well, googa01. As much as the stolen generation is a tragedy, I felt it wasn't directly relevant to this issue but I suppose you understand what I mean.
Anyway...
MrMark, you don't learn anything in life and have the capacity to cope if you are not exposed to what occurs in life and learn to deal with it from experience. This environment created here, sensitize you to a point where you become dependent on it as it provides you this 'shelter', that you start to become anti-social in real life; and isolated away from society to a point where, you have nothing else to depend on. Worse of all it doesn't help when this behavior of over-protection, promoting trivial self-pity (without attempting to stop their emotionally harmful train of thought), over-dependency and no capacity to be brutally honest is endorsed. Also some level of aggression is needed for people to realize that we live in a cruel world and to desensitize them to it over time and even teach them how to be assertive and confident. Basically instead of sheltering people from every little insult, teach them how to truly cope in a honest way regarding all the negativity in life, so they don't need to depend on this place all the time and have confidence to get in to the real world.
Do you realize that this board's environment is holding some people back and failing them, and not truly helping them move forward in their lives like it should? If this is suppose to be a support site, it's suppose to help people get back into society with confidence by learning how it is, and not isolate themselves from it because they have a save haven that's too over-protective.
I see a lot of good people here and do care about them (EDIT: otherwise I'd stay at ZOMG and not bother being here), who I feel some of them who rant only about daily issues that everyone has suffered, only need to realize that they need to try and live their lives, and learn from their mistakes and try not to worry about how people judge them, and try to build their self-confidence. They don't need constant shelter from society, they need some good advice, told things will eventually go well for them if try to live carefree and need to help themselves. You only live once as they say, so people, don't let trivial issues hold you back anymore and be proactive, assertive and confident with yourself, that's all you truly need to be content and happy.
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"Have a nice apocalypse" - Southland Tales |
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