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Perambulator
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 350
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: Fitness Tips |
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From my own experience this works well. Buy or use your already bought bicycle and cycle for 10 miles a day at least. Maybe to school, university or work and back or to the shops somewhere when you need to go shopping. That's your cardiovascular workout. It's not intense enough to make you an athlete but it's enough to keep you fit, heathy, in good shape and free from many illnesses you'd otherwise be susceptible to. It's also easy to keep up because you see real scenery and real people and interact with them.
Combine with this a routine of press ups, sit ups and any other body exercises not requiring lifting, pulling or pushing weights. Also do a few minutes of skipping with a rope - this is the classic and proper way to train your lower body. My advice is never, ever do weightlifting regularly as exercise training. It exercises the most aesthetic and external muscles - it makes you look big, and indeed gives you big muscles but also slows you down. It also only makes you stronger in one sense. You can lift more weight but your body is much more likely to fall apart under the stresses of any exercise if you depend on weightlifting. Weightlifting doesn't exercise the joints or tendons inside your body that aren't visible. These parts don't look impressive.
Charles Atlas is not someone many people remember or think about anymore. However he was mostly right. He observed tigers for example are strong and they never lift weights. Ditto for lions and leopards. These animals are big because they eat a lot of protein by being fierce predators and because they have a bodyweight that has to be supported on all fours all the time (except when lying or sitting down) which helps build impressive musculature.
I'll also say that for guys who want to impress girls or even other guys (if you're bisexual or gay) doing as many press ups as you can until you collapse on a fairly regular basis along with a diet that isn't junk food is going to get you so "ripped" that it will make most of you guys look up to 10 times more attractive. Building big muscles will frighten women, it will impress a minority but you don't want that minority. They're the kind of women who want a man to fight for them and want to be treated like a spoilt child.
Also avoid steroids, supplements and protein milkshakes. Perhaps use a few supplements but don't rely on them. Don't go to gyms - they're dull and full of vain people who don't know much about exercise. Before steroids, supplements, protein shakes and gyms were the norm the bodybuilders of for example the '50s and '60s were far more capable athletes. They were well-rounded and more able to live a normal, fulfulling life than today's bodybuilders.
Having said that bodybuilding isn't for everyone. Not everyone wants to get fit only to look good. The good thing about how I've told you to bodybuild is it won't isolate you from natural fitness in the way that using steroids, weight machines, free weights and protein shakes will. Even using my techniques if you don't put any training into punching bags or that kind of thing then when it comes to a fight, you might be hopeless. What good are big muscles (even moderately large ones like I advocate) if they aren't used to being thrusted and can't survive the speed and endurance of a heat-of-the-moment fight? |
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MrMark
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Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Age: 51
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Weil likes walking because it produces the fewest number of injuries.
I lift light weights specifically for joints and tendons.
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traveller011212
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Age: 29
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Fitness Tips |
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| Perambulator wrote: | | My advice is never, ever do weightlifting regularly as exercise training. It exercises the most aesthetic and external muscles - it makes you look big, and indeed gives you big muscles but also slows you down. It also only makes you stronger in one sense. You can lift more weight but your body is much more likely to fall apart under the stresses of any exercise if you depend on weightlifting. Weightlifting doesn't exercise the joints or tendons inside your body that aren't visible. These parts don't look impressive. |
That is only one type of weight training involving weights, there are so many others. Weight training, when done properly, actually focuses on improving flexibility, speed, joint strength, bone strength, muscle strength and cardiovascular fitness. Please do not base weight training on body building tactics as that is a very small population of lifters. Weight training adds variety to your routine and can actually target stability areas, like your rotator cuff, that bodyweight exercises cannot.
If you only do presses (or push ups as some call them) you will seriously unbalance your upper body as your back will get much weaker than your chest. Also, jump rope will work your cardiovascular system mostly with some work on your legs. Jump rope will mostly work your calves and not much else. Squats and lunges work your legs much better.
Overall everything that you said above has been proven false more than twenty years ago. There are some great resources on the web. I like www.menshealth.com because they stay on top of the current research. Feel free to confirm. |
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rjay09
Raven
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 117
Location: West Chester, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, you sound like a Furey-ite. Maybe you had bad experiences with weights, probably caused by poor advice. Weight lifting can actually produce all the characteristics that traveller mentioned. I'm glad your methods work for you but your program isn't quite something I'd prescribe to everyone. Let me hit some of your points and present some of my counterpoints. No disrespect intended, this is as much for me as it is for anyone else. 
Press/push ups can also lead to a shoulder imbalance, particularly internal rotation and hyperkyphosis - a hunchback posture. Situps tighten the hip flexors via irradiation of muscle tension to local muscles via the rectus abdominus (ab muscles). A tight psoas (hip flexor) leads to hyperlordosis, or tilting of the pelvis forward which pulls the lumbar spine into hyperextension (bad). Since many sedentary people suffer from at least one of these postural problems, these exercises may actually exacerbate these situations and lead to injuries down the line. This is why having an assessment by a physical trainer is important.
There are many different approaches to lifting that actually do not make your muscles large, unfunctional, and slow. Low reps with heavy weight (two sets of five for example) on large compound movements done frequently (3-5 times a week) will mostly trigger neural adaptations that produce 'functional' strength (to use a big fitness buzzword) as opposed to pumped up muscles.
The Westside Barbell powerlifting club actually trains the Big Three (squat, bench, deadlift) with three different set/rep setups. One day for max effort (close to 100% 1 rep max) which is slow due to the heavy weight, one day for dynamic effort (40-60% 1RM depending on training level, done with a focus on bar speed), and repetition training (bodybuilding style, 8-10 reps, mostly for secondary and prehab lifts). In that way, they certainly do train speed, but in a strength context. And in my time in martial arts, I have met many large people who lift heavy weights who had incredible hand speed. Also, look at Oly lifters (snatch, clean and jerk) and tell me that they are not fast. Oly lifters also tend to have incredible shoulder and hip flexibility, as well as stability.
Connective tissue is actually quite strong and does not require much training for anyone but elite athletes and injured populations (who would probably undertake such exercise under the supervision of a therapist). An untrained person can only activate a fraction of their muscles' potential strength, say 10%. A trained person may be able to activate 20%, and an elite athlete maybe even more. There are numerous safeguards in your body that protect from connective tissue damage, since they are avascular and thus heal much slower than the blood-rich muscles. Your muscles will likely tear long before your tendons rip in most cases (bench press an exception - tears of the clavicular head of the pec major are a common injury in powerlifters and bodybuilders alike). Proprioceptors (muscle spindles and GTO) also act as safeguards by shutting down muscle tension after it reaches a certain activation threshold, to prevent the muscle from contracting so hard that it rips the tendons. So connective tissue concerns are mostly only applicable to special populations.
I certainly agree that training to failure is counterproductive. Some HIT Jedi can pull it off and become strong and huge, but they are the exception. Most trainees will benefit from periodized/cyclical weight training far more than constantly training to failure. Also weight machines are quite useless, as they do not activate any stabilizer muscles the weight free weights do.
Right on about steroids, although they were certainly the norm from the 60's through 70's, before they were regulated. Whey protein is one of the most bioavailable proteins you can find, and it can be absorbed quicker in liquid form. Taken along with high glycemic carbs after a workout, the insulin boost should pull quite a bit of protein into your muscles creating a very anabolic environment. If you're into that. Most strength is neurological though, so if size is not your thing you can skip this and just eat right.
If you want to see strongmen who were *real* athletes, look up Eugene Sandow and Arthur Saxon. Sandow had a chiseled physique, was incredibly strong, could do full splits and backflip. These strongmen mostly trained Olympic style lifts, deadlifts, and the bent press. These were the days before squat racks and benches. These men had stability, flexibility, and strength - as well as a physique - that today's average gym rat can only dream of. Check out Pavel Tsatsouline's book Power to the People! for a great text that examines the way these men trained and compresses it into a program that is simple and effective. It hits almost every point that I went over above - and more - in much greater detail.
Weight lifting is one of the most healing exercises. Unfortunately, these days there has been much misinformation propagated via the internet. Many strength and conditioning coaches are stuck in a rut and can't quite put everything together very well, but there is a large movement of powerlifters, bodybuilders, therapists, and researchers who are starting to go against the conventional "2 sets of 8 to failure every set for every lift every workout just add more weight or more reps every day and you will become big and strong ablahblah." Check out www.t-nation.com and read some articles. Periodization and compound movements are the key to weight lifting success. Also, soft tissue work and flexibility help also. And general knowledge of kinesiology, anatomy, and physiology. :> Oh, and anaerobic short-duration cardio has a lot of research going into it and it is proving more and more useful for body composition, strength, speed, and even aerobic capacity than the traditional medium-intensity long-duration approach (which tends to atrophy muscle tissue, impair neurological strength adaptations, damage joints, and not increase anaerobic endurance).
As always, no disrespect/flaming intended. I do lots of independent study on these subjects in addition to majoring so sometimes I like to test what I know, and hopefully help someone 'see the light' in the process.  |
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beef_bourito
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 1912
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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as said before, this isn't something everyone should do. it might work for you, congratulations that you've found something that suits you, but other routes would be more beneficial to many people.
weights are a good thing. if you look at just about any athlete, you'll probably see them doing some kind of weights or resistance exercise at some point in the year. they won't only make you big, they can, but for many people that's not the point. olympic weightlifters were mentioned. they do LOTS of weights (obviously) and if you look at the highest weight class, they're really REALLY big, and that's usually the one people see, but if you look even one weight class lower, where the athletes actually have to make weight for their competition, they're lean, thin, and ridiculously strong. if you look at rowing, us lightweights can't put on a lot of muscle or we won't make weight, but we lift weights to get stronger, as well as copious amounts of various forms of cardio.
weights also suit people with no athletic goals in mind. it's hard to strengthen your lower back with simple bodyweight exercises if you don't have the right tools, it's hard to work your traps with bodyweight. gyms have equipment that can help you with these. squats and deadlifts can strengthen your core and legs like you'd never imagine, and not necessarily by adding muscle to them. this can be extremely beneficial to the average person who sits in front of a computer all day because they tend to be the most likely to throw out their back doing something simple.
not only do weights help you become stronger, they also teach you how to lift things. i see people all around me try to lift things and they do it completely wrong. you wonder why so many people throw out their backs when they try to do yard work, move something, etc. it's because they do it improperly. if they knew how to deadlift, squat, clean, any of those, i can almost guarantee you that they wouldn't throw out their back.
you also mentioned protein shakes. they aren't as bad as you think. there are lots of nutrients in whey protein that you don't get elsewhere, and as mentioned before, it's the most bioavailable protein available. sure, you shouldn't use them as a meal substitute because there are nutrients in foods that you don't get from a protein concentrate or isolate, but whey protein is very good for you.
again, i agree that steroids are bad. stay away from them because they do no good. they can give you quick gains but are terrible for your body. i've known a few people who have gone on them, and they got bigger, but it's just not worth it. you're doing real harm to your body, which could be permanent, just for a bit more muscle. |
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Perambulator
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 350
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I respect all your views. They were put across thoughtfully. I might reconsider my position. I know Bruce Lee lifted heavy weights in low repetitions. I'm thinking at this point that doing various exercises with heavy free weights and a low number of repetitions in combination with cardiovascular and the calisthenics I've mentioned but also much more variety might be the best balance for fitness and strength. |
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traveller011212
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Age: 29
Posts: 520
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Lower reps = strength (6 - 10)
mid range = size (12 - 16)
high range = endurance/ toning (18+)
I think those ranges are good.
I would recommend the following BW exercise: pull-ups.
If you don't balance out your body you can also stall gains in strength, speed, endurance, and size.
also, check out Yoga. I highly recommend it. Hot and flexible girls to help you struggle through the initial phases.  |
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traveller011212
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| and planks |
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rjay09
Raven
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Age: 21
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Location: West Chester, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: |
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6-10 is low reps for you traveller!? Wow, we totally part ways there. (Hopefully I don't sound like a prick, this is just stuff I love to throw my two cents in)
Let me preface this with my Two Training Truths: 1. it depends and 2. everything works sometimes, for some people. Some people might grow like crazy off sets of five. Others might need to cycle 8-12 reps to grow. But at some point, they will need to change it up. It is mostly dependent on your muscle fibre type. Some people are slow twitch dominant and grow from high reps, some are fast twitch dominant and grow better from low reps. Unless you want to do a muscle biopsy to determine your muscle fiber composition, just keep a journal and see what works better for you.
That said, the American College of Sports Medicine has recommendations on rep ranges for advanced trainees. http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Guidelines.html The ACSM is not perfect, and their programs are not particularly better than a beginner's program you might find on T-Nation. 5 sets of 5 reps on bench, squat, and deadlift is a popular one to prescribe beginners on T-Nation, and it has a good track record for producing results. I love sets of 5 so I like it, but you might not.
The thing about ACSM's recommendations above is that they are generally quite true across the industry. Pavel, Cressey, and others on T-Nation and Bodybuilding.com will recommend similar rep ranges for similar purposes. Research has confirmed it several times.
1-3 reps produce strength, but it is almost entirely due to neurological adaptation, not muscle growth (hypertrophy). You gain strength but very little potential for size. These sets are best saved until you are intermediate or advanced, and mostly if you are looking to max out on a lift or have a competition coming up. These low rep sets are also applicable to dynamic effort workouts where the focus is on bar speed. This is a fairly high end Westside Barbell concept, not for novices, so stay away from these for a while.
4-6 reps produce strength and some size. Research suggests (but does not confirm) that size gains from this rep range may be due to myofibrillar hypertrophy as opposed to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. More on this later. I love sets of five and use them regularly, although I do frequently cycle in other rep ranges on a month by month basis. You can do a lot with this, such as adding extra sets to increase volume (total reps, incredibly useful for size gains). Two sets is perhaps optimal for strength, although research suggests (again, does not confirm) that one set may be just as useful for strength. Any more than two sets in this rep range will make me overtrain quickly.
7-10 reps is a gray area. Depending on your muscle fiber composition, you may or may not get size in this range. Research does suggest that 7+ reps can be counterproductive to strength (as defined by maximum weight lifted for one rep in any given exercise) when compared to lower rep ranges. For that reason, this rep range is not frequently used close to powerlifting competitions. ACSM suggests 6-12 reps for hypertrophy, but again, it depends.
Again, depending on your fiber types, your mileage will vary in the 11-15 rep range. Slow twitch types may get some more size gains from this rep range than 7-10. It depends.
15+ reps gets into localized muscle endurance. Most people will benefit far more from a program with more emphasis on strength, but athletes with specialized needs may find this useful. For example, climbers looking to improve their grip endurance would benefit from this. For endurance, exercises that promote systemic fatigue over local fatigue are preferable.
As a bodybuilding technique, this rep range will induce more sarcoplasmic hypertrophy than myofibrillar hypertrophy. An exception is the famous 20 rep breathing squats, which - due to using a compound movement that produces systemic fatigue, rather than purely local fatigue as a bench press might - can be applied for great gains in all around size.
Note that for systemic conditioning exercises like burpees, sled dragging, and kettlebells, 15+ reps is a common norm. These tend not to produce localized fatigue but rather a systemic fatigue of not only the musculoskeletal system, but also the respiratory system. In other words, it is cardio.
Myofibrillar vs. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy
Research is not quite clear on the relationship between rep ranges and MFH vs. SPH, but it is suggested that 4-6 reps induces MFH and 15+ SPH, with rep ranges in the middle creating some mix of the two.
Myofibrils are the actual contractile tissue in muscles. I don't want to get into a complete lesson on the cross section of a myofibril, but myofibrils are useful for strength. More of them means your muscles can contract with more force with the same amount of neural activation.
The sarcoplasm houses a muscle cell's mitochondria and glycogen stores, which are both crucial elements in size. The sarcoplasm itself is a soft jello-like substance. If myofibrils are responsible for maximum contractile force (strength), then development of the sarcoplasm is responsible for fatigue resistance (endurance). Glycogen is the storage form of carbohydrates and is converted to energy when ATP is depleted and the energy requirements for activity exceed the aerobic capacity of the respiratory system. This is a whole other area to dive into, but it has quite a bit to do with anaerobic endurance.
Pull ups are great. They are a staple of my own training. Lat training carries over to almost all other strength endeavors, as well as every day posture and good movement patterns.
Mobility and stability are both important to balance out, ideally before you even get started trying to get strong or large. If you lack either of these, your body will compensate in ways that are harmful. Mobility in the shoulders, thoracic spine, hips, and ankles are of prime importance in both stability and safety. Note that mobility is more than just standard (passive) stretching, it is a combination of the three prime flexibilities - static, dynamic, and active. No doubt I will write on all of these soon enough. Yoga - or any similar form of bodywork - would be great for both mobility and stability, as it is a great blending of all three.
Got it!?!  Again, sorry for all the long posts. I feel kind of obnoxious posting like this but hopefully it is of use to you. |
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-JR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Wow. One stop shop for info on bodybuilding right here! Who woulda thunk it?!
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monty
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, rjay09 - good info.
Perambulator - I would not put protein shakes (or protein snacks) in the same category as steroids. Protein is a necessity, and if a person is exercising, more protein is often needed. Sure, some people overdo it. But an extra serving of protein (from whatever source) is a reasonable step for most people that are trying to build strength or muscle or are doing endurance training. |
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