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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 4057
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: Social Skills Getting Worse? |
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It seems, as time has gone on, my social skills have gotten worse and not better. It seems my opportunity close as time marches on and other people make further and further gains. I continuously have a smaller share of life experience in comparison to people in my age group. I find my social skills get rusty with little practice, and what I have now makes sustained social interaction difficult not from anxiety or a feeling of being overwhelmed but from a shere confusion of what I ought to say or do. I just spout off what seems best, but people often look at my funny or ignore me when I do and are quick to end their conversations with me.
Invariably, I try to strike up a conversation with someone and I ask them what their name is, what their major is, if they live in the same dorm as me, what classes they are taking, etc. I don't find much in common to get things moving from there. |
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Endersdragon
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Worse overall no, worse compared to my peers yes. I think Im just slipping farther behind, which is why generally online I try to talk to people younger then me, they dont seem to care that I talk so weirdly.
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Nuttdan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 21
Posts: 322
Location: White River Junction, VT
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience, I've had trouble defining social skills. At some basic human level, it's good to be attuned to some nonverbal stuff that's in all cultures and stuff. But then there's stuff that isn't so much there as it is that it happens to be, in a sense. Like the kids in my high school -- biggest bunch of jerks ever. Does my inability to get along with a bunch that deliberately excludes me because I'm not part of their whole entrenched cliquey circlejerk mean that <b>I</b> have bad social skills? These are the kind of things I've been tyring to figure out.
How do you define social skills?
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North
Raven
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Social skills are like any other skill. Some people are naturally talented, but anyone can improve with practice. I was never very outgoing in high school, but I ended up getting a job in the service industry that required me to interact with hundreds (if not thousands) of people on a daily basis. This made me familiar enough with making casual conversation that I've had a much easier time conversing with people in college. I mentioned this in another post but I think that many people with AS are caught in a catch-22: they are anxious in social situations because they have no experience, and they have no experience because they avoid social situations that make them anxious. In my case, I had no real choice- I HAD to interact with people to do my job.
NeantHumain, when you try to start a conversation with someone, who do you start it with? Is it just a random person sitting alone at lunch, or a classmate, or neighbors in the dorm, or what? My experience is that it's VERY difficult to chat with random people you see, since it's pretty likely you don't have anything in common, and the person may be by themselves by choice (doing homework, reading, etc.). It's easier to chat with classmates because you already know what you have in common and can make small talk based on that ("Damn, that last test was brutal" or "This professor seems to be a fairly easy grader"). Most, though not all, people are happy to chat, and even if you don't develop a relationship with them, you still gain valuable experience. Also good are co-workers, people you recognize from your dorm, people that participate in the same activities as you- people that you know you have something in common with. |
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Bec
On a rocketship to Pigfarts
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 1917
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think I can agree with most of the statements above. Individually my social skills are getting better. As for social milestones, however, when my peers take ten steps forward, it seems I only take five.
| Nuttdan wrote: | | How do you define social skills? |
That is a really hard question to answer. I think it's about behaving appropriately in social situations according to society's standards. It's knowing when you're about to be too blunt or rude. It's being able to tell when something you say will offend someone. It's acting somewhat comfortable and at ease in social situations. It's knowing what is the right thing to say to someone, and what is the right time to say it. It's knowing when to shut up and actually doing it. It's being able to receive and understand nonverbal signals and acting accordingly upon receving those nonverbal signals. I think that pretty much sums up social skills. |
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fahreeq
Phoenix
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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure. On one hand, I have doing better in social situations. Today I handled an unplanned social situation (a business lunch) really well, and I was proud of myself. On the other hand, I have much less desire to interact with people, which may be impeding my social skills. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7174
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I've noticed that mine are laregly contingent on certain biological things - that probably sounds wierd but it seems like I have all the know-how just that sometimes everything's lined up and sometimes I'm feeling too out of it to even use it right. I've also noticed that my AS hits me in cycles - I'll have a week or two where, in relationship to most times I can come off silky smooth and prettymuch pass as NT for the most part, wit and all. Then I have times where I really do come off as almost socially retarded or just very disoriented. During those times I can literally feel it in my head like certain neurological areas of my brain are falling asleep on me, I know that no matter how much I try I won't be able to 'vibe up' as normal (I still make sense when I talk to people but my speech and angles I come from will seem disoriented), best way I can describe it is I feel like I'm extremely extremely stoned - to where my head just about feels like it's collapsing on itself, I just don't have my spit turning to cooking oil and don't have the munchies.
As far as the types of friends I make, they tend to be guys who are cool and all, sharp and witty, but who have the types of personalities that are real cognitive, kinda slightly on the ADHD/OCD tract of thinking, and their assessment of people is really based on their integrity, character, the fact that they like intelligence, don't like drama, etc. - in essence they have a more substance over form approach to people in general (same would go to the female friends I have). As for the types of people who usually do end up having a problem with me they usually are fine with me by the time they realize other people like themselves are, others really need a lot of time in close proximity with me to figure out that I'm ok on their own. Regardless, I'll still have the rare girl here and there giving me freaked out looks, telling people I'm crazy - grrrr!!! It just happened again tonight in class.
The real tragedy for me in all this is that social skills or the knowledge of aren't any help because again, this is something that just claps down on me and I have to go into damage mitigation mode - act as normal as I can where it matters but sometimes I can't worry about looking all wide-eyed, wierd, and neurologically jacked because once I try to tackle that impossible task in that mode I've lost the energy it needs to keep myself socially composed as much. It seems like overtime that cyclical rollercoaster ride is getting to where the highs are just a shade higher and the troughs are low but not quite as low as the last time. Problem is that's something that's happening so slowly that it takes me looking back, especially at times of seasonal changes, to prior years to compare myself to how I'm doing now. It's like other people mentioned though - I"m making progress but it's like I'm going 30mph on the highwy while other people are going 70. It's excruciating sometimes to even keep at 30 and for me to really relax like other people I'd really have to be going 15 or 20, but in my mind and based on what I see of how this world works, giving myself no peace and striving like hell to get to 31 or 32 mph, even if the effort I put in is exhorbinant and is wrecking my health, is the only honorable way to handle things.
On the fact that lots of people don't see it at all with me while others are hypersensitive, it scares the hell out of me also because I'm graduating college, going to the professional world, and this kind of problem has absolutely no place there. Seems like questions of my competance are usually rare, far between, and the only people who really get creeped out are evaluating me from their own emotions rather than the facts of what I can or can't do, who I am, etc. On the other hand, that puts me right on the tight rope where technically I can get by, but my life is gonna probably wrapped in a sort of paranoia and dysphoria caused by that concern and that awareness that I may never be able to relax, and as lots of you know there's a HUGE other component that really seems to trump nuts and bolts social skills - how effortless someone is: that'll probably keep me out of the box untill I'm in one about 6 feet down pushing daisies. Yeah, it's f**ed but I've gotta accept that as my fate. At the same time, that feeling of hopelessness is the one thing that keeps me dedicated to never letting the war against my AS down, if just one more ounce of effort could have gotten me normal, to the safe zone, and living what I felt was a fullfilling life, I'd regret it to the end of time if I hadn't given just that one more ounce. |
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Nomaken
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 10, 2005
Posts: 2059
Location: 31726 Windsor, Garden City, Michigan, 48135
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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School imposed social life onto me. I didnt need to work for it, we were obligated to socialize. As i get older and i am less obligated to socialize with people i find myself unable to form more social ties. At least in the normal sense.
I can be just as social as i want, as long as i am allowed to do it in my weird ass way. And in my opinion the way i want to do it is more fun.
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7174
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| God, I love that feeling. Even right now as I'm talking about it I feel almost like some force is grabbing my brain from overtop and trying to squeeze it into sedation. I know it's gotta be chemical but what? Stimulants only do so much and only offer a narrow band of help rather then fully aleviating the problem... |
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neongrl
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Age: 33
Posts: 703
Location: Delhi, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | I've noticed that mine are laregly contingent on certain biological things - that probably sounds wierd but it seems like I have all the know-how just that sometimes everything's lined up and sometimes I'm feeling too out of it to even use it right. I've also noticed that my AS hits me in cycles - I'll have a week or two where, in relationship to most times I can come off silky smooth and prettymuch pass as NT for the most part, wit and all. Then I have times where I really do come off as almost socially retarded or just very disoriented. During those times I can literally feel it in my head like certain neurological areas of my brain are falling asleep on me, I know that no matter how much I try I won't be able to 'vibe up' as normal (I still make sense when I talk to people but my speech and angles I come from will seem disoriented...
...The real tragedy for me in all this is that social skills or the knowledge of aren't any help because again, this is something that just claps down on me and I have to go into damage mitigation mode - act as normal as I can where it matters but sometimes I can't worry about looking all wide-eyed, wierd, and neurologically jacked because once I try to tackle that impossible task in that mode I've lost the energy it needs to keep myself socially composed as much. |
Yep, that's how it is for me too. My social skills weren't too horribly bad to begin with, and from there they've definitely improved over time (growing up with an NT sister who can read and understand me better than anyone IRL, who gave me all the education and guidance I needed, and now having a husband who tells me what I'm supposed to be doing if I don't figure it out myself). Like you said though, the biggest problem is putting all that knowledge to use - showing it and saying or doing the right things outwardly, and pulling off in a way that appears halfway natural... It hits me in cycles too - for me it seems to be related to hormones more than anything. Over 4 weeks, I'll usually have a week where I come across as pretty NT, a week where all those brain muzzles are clamped down pretty tight and outwardly I seem pretty autistic, with a couple of weeks in between when all that stuff is somewhere between those two extremes. (I happen to be in the middle of the bad week right now. It can be pretty rough, but the good news is that means in a few days everything should be really good for a little while again.) |
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Sophist
ENTIA NON SVNT MVLTIPLICANDA PRAETER NECESSITATEM
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 6214
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Yes, sometimes I just get so tired or overloaded that I really don't give a damn anymore about trying to reciprocate.
Might be sitting and talking with somebody and I just get overloaded and finally have to say "Hell with it" and then I just end up saying things like "uh-huh", "yeah", "right" and maybe nodding a little. But I'm not paying attention at ALL.
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neongrl
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Age: 33
Posts: 703
Location: Delhi, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | God, I love that feeling. Even right now as I'm talking about it I feel almost like some force is grabbing my brain from overtop and trying to squeeze it into sedation. I know it's gotta be chemical but what? Stimulants only do so much and only offer a narrow band of help rather then fully aleviating the problem... |
I have a question - this is just a guess, were you in a chat when you wrote that? That's the first thing I thought of because that's exactly what chat does to me. Other situations do it too of course but a busy chat is one of the worst offenders - that's why I hardly ever even bother with them. (And for me, my functioning seems to be at it's best in the morning when no one is around online, and by the evening or night when people are around, my functioning has gone too far downhill.) Whatever the situation was for you, I know the feeling. You're right, stimulants help but they only do so much... I think the problem is with ADHD and AS, we have chemical and neurological factors both causing problems. Stimulants help with one side of that but not the other. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7174
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| neongrl wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | God, I love that feeling. Even right now as I'm talking about it I feel almost like some force is grabbing my brain from overtop and trying to squeeze it into sedation. I know it's gotta be chemical but what? Stimulants only do so much and only offer a narrow band of help rather then fully aleviating the problem... |
I have a question - this is just a guess, were you in a chat when you wrote that? That's the first thing I thought of because that's exactly what chat does to me. |
Oddly enough I was, but at the same time it usually doesn't have that kind of effect on me. So you think that may just be an overload limit type of thing? |
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CRACK
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 03, 2005
Posts: 891
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| yes, sitting in this dark room alone for 88% of the day, everyday, doesn't help me much either. |
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neongrl
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Age: 33
Posts: 703
Location: Delhi, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Oddly enough I was, but at the same time it usually doesn't have that kind of effect on me. So you think that may just be an overload limit type of thing? |
Yeah that's what I've always thought. For myself, in general I think most of the muzzle effect and the feeling of certain cognitive areas slowing down is related pretty closely to overload, and that overload is caused by a combination of AS and ADHD factors. You've got the messed up aspie wiring, the barely-functional sensory filters, and the chemical issues (dopamine etc). As a bit of an ADHD-specific side note (maybe I've mentioned this before), I read somewhere that when they do brain activity scans on people with underfocused ADHD, when those people are faced with a task (physical, verbal, social, whatever), the part of their brain that controls that task actually *slows down* or 'goes to sleep' instead of becoming *more* active. |
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