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Zonder
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject: "Einstein Syndrome," Do You Fit It? Reply with quote

Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of a small group of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
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Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 6931

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: "Einstein Syndrome," Do You Fit It? Reply with quote

Zonder wrote:
Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) *(computers/math)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college) *(one)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys *
High IQ *
High analytical and/or musical abilities *(analytical)
Extremely good memory (to photographic) *(depends)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing *(certainly USED to be the case, and sometimes is)
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others *
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers *
Late in socializing with their peers *(still really waiting)
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people *(usually)
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things *
Like building things *
Like putting puzzles together *(REALLY liked it)
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”


I put an asterisk by the ones that match me. I guess, given your earlier description, no, even though I only miss 3-4 of the individual criteria.
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Danielismyname
Keep making noises... .
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Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 9599

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have:

Majority are boys
High IQ
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Strong-willed

None are really diagnostic pointers of an ASD, apart from "Delayed Speech Development"; "Late in socializing with their peers" is a delay in, rather than a lifelong lack of [to varying degrees]. "Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others" and "Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing" are pointers for the repetitive behaviour of AS, but in AS it is to the exclusion of things people "should" be doing to adapt to society.

Many of them are associated with an ASD, and this is where the overlap will come from.
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Tohlagos
Phoenix
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Joined: Apr 26, 2008
Posts: 1241
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: "Einstein Syndrome," Do You Fit It? Reply with quote

Zonder wrote:
Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of a small group of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) * (accounting and pharmacy)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late (unknown)
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)* (one)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys*
High IQ*
High analytical and/or musical abilities*
Extremely good memory (to photographic)*
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing*
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others*
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers*
Late in socializing with their peers*
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) (unknown)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people*
Late in being toilet trained (unknown)
Fascinated with mechanical things*
Like building things*
Like putting puzzles together*
Strong-willed*



To answer your question, yes.

Further, glad to see you back Zonder. I have not seen you post in a long time. Hope your garden turned out well this season.
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Cormac_doyle
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Posts: 112
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes ... but whats the difference between this and AS ? sounds like he just doesn't want to use the word autism
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ryry85
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Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i fit with the individual pattern except for delays in speach and toilet training. i honestly think its just someone trying to narrow down to a smaller group. its like saying that 30% have blonde hair or somthing. there is absolutely no merrit in this what so ever. there are plenty of people who have become highly successful scientists or are simply "bright" people and dont fit these patterns well if at all.
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
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Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 6931

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cormac_doyle wrote:
Yes ... but whats the difference between this and AS ? sounds like he just doesn't want to use the word autism


Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
Late in being toilet trained
Strong-willed

Don't sound like AS, and "Delayed Speech Development" is specifically excluded from AS.
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Apatura
Phoenix
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Age: 40
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read both of Sowell's books carefully. What he doesn't seem to understand is the concept of an autistic SPECTRUM where some children with autistic symptoms (including late talking which is (wrongfully IMO) excluded from the AS criteria) "turn out ok" in that they are able to function pretty much independently, hold down jobs, have relationships, etc..

His books are drawn from anecdotes only and not real studies.

I did enjoy the books, don't get me wrong, but he TOTALLY misses the mark when it comes to the idea of there being an autistic spectrum with varying levels of functionality.
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BelindatheNobody
Ad finem temporum
Phoenix


Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 1387
Location: Westfield

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: "Einstein Syndrome," Do You Fit It? Reply with quote

I have:
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Late in socializing with their peers
Fascinated with mechanical things
Dislike meeting new people (Except I'm a girl.)

I'm not sure about:
Close Relatives Who talked late
High IQ
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Strong-willed
High analytical and/or musical abilities

When I was younger but not now:
Like putting puzzles together

Quote:
“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”

I like poetry (well, I at least like writing it) and art.
_________________
They leave behind so many shadows. This substance in time forced into life,
still exists because it's here: living in me, living in all the memories, in my life.
Lost inside blank infinity.

Flavors of: Nobody. Slytherin. Autistic.
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Cormac_doyle
Raven
Raven


Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 112
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2ukenkerl wrote:
Cormac_doyle wrote:
Yes ... but whats the difference between this and AS ? sounds like he just doesn't want to use the word autism


Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
Late in being toilet trained
Strong-willed

Don't sound like AS, and "Delayed Speech Development" is specifically excluded from AS.


Never been quite sure why Delayed speech is explicitly excluded from AS ... I know that I didn't talk until I was about 3 Smile
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Danielismyname
Keep making noises... .
Phoenix


Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 9599

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was Temple who said that "geeks" are where Asperger's and Autism crosses over into normality, i.e., a spectrum. "Geek Syndrome" is synonymous with "Einstein Syndrome".

I'm not sold on the "Spectrum" idea, personally--I'm aware that there's various manifestations of symptoms and severities, but I'm more of a fan of PDDs making up several distinct disorders, rather than being the same disorder (take cancer for example, there's various types of, rather than just one type of cancer; cancer in the brain tends to be more severe than cancer of the skin).

Saying that it's a spectrum is like saying everyone with cancer has it in their brain, even though this isn't true. I see a spectrum of Autism [and its various types], of Asperger's and the same, etcetera.

(This is of course if one separates Autism and Asperger's based on how the social impairments and repetitive behaviours manifest, rather than just mixing them all together like some people do, like Attwood for example.)
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Danielismyname
Keep making noises... .
Phoenix


Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 9599

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A delay in the acquisition of speech isn't excluded from many countries in relation to Asperger's. Some go by how the social impairments manifest (aloof/passive for Autism; odd and eccentric/formal and stilted for AS), and some go by overall IQ alone.
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Sora
away away
Phoenix


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 5653
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: "Einstein Syndrome," Do You Fit It? Reply with quote

I love stuff like that...

Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) No
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally No
Close Relatives Who talked late No
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college) No

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys No
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing No
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others No
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers Not late, autistic.
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) No
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people If this holds true for girls too, then no.
Late in being toilet trained No
Fascinated with mechanical things No
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett
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Drakilor
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Posts: 186

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This conversation disturbs me greatly. It would seem that this thread is doomed to a life of masturbatory rituals of the ego, rather than as a platform for intelligent discussion on the book and its authorship.
Given the choice, I would traverse to the science convention rather than idle at the spot, observing name droppers associating themselves with celebrities.
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MSO1729
Hummingbird
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Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have almost all of them, except I don't think I talked late.
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