*"Name Calling": Schizoid Personality Disorder!*

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I don't know how many people got the chance to read the thread started by a troll calling themselves "plankwrong", ( which somebody suggested should have been "wrongplank" ! ), before it was wiped from the record, but I did, and it upset me.

Plankwrong was suggesting that most of us on wp weren't "really aspergers". He said that the real name for us was a scary one, a serious one, which we were all just avoiding because it would mean that we wouldn't be able to pretend that we couldn't help the way we were, that we would have to face up to our profound mental illness, and that name was "schizoid personality disorder".

It took me at least 10 minutes, some of that time on the loo, after reading the post, to realise that the thread/OP was a good example of sophisticated name calling, and doubly subtle/complex because he had to stress, with reference to psychiatry, and pathological avoidance etc, how awful the name was before calling us it. I spent the rest of the morning feeling shaken up by it.

In the afternoon I looked up "schizoid personality disorder" on the net, wikipedia naturally , and discovered several interesting things;

a) many people are not even sure that it ( the cluster of personality factors it refers to) should even qualify as a mental illness.

b) some introverts, for example those who founded the sites "An introvert's World", and "Introvert Nation" ( the latter unfortunately seems to have crashed and burned since I last looked at it last year and found it most inspiring/liberating; if anyone knows what has happened to it/where to find it, I would be really glad to hear about it ), see "SPD" as an example of the hostile treatment accorded to introverts in our society ( western) for the last 100 years, and a symptom of the oppression that we introverts ( who make up 96% of those wp members who have taken the Myers-Briggs Jungian Typology tests), experience daily in society.

c) analysis of SPD shows that those "suffering" from it have

This is as close as the DSM and Wiki description get to acknowledging any neurological reason, or basis, for the "disorder". And also sounds interestingly like ASperger's problems with social cues etc.

The rest of the time the description is resoundingly full of expressions which state, or imply, that this is something which the SPD "sufferer" can do something about, if they choose to. And apparently many do not choose to, because they are happy the way they are. The ones who do go for psychiatric treatment, drugs or therapy, do so because they are experiencing too much conflict between their need for attachment, ( something which our society advertises/sells everywhere; which creates demand perhaps... ) , and their need for distance.

I was struck by how the description, as many older DSM/psychiatric classifications do, made little or no reference to physical symptoms, as if the body did not exist, as if we were nothing but minds.

And by how judgemental it was, referring often to the "patient's" choice not to risk, not to expose, not to dare, not to experiment, not to be vulnerable, as a decision taken at some time in the distant past, but which one could overcome if one was prepared to "do the work" ( the therapy etc). The personality to aim for was of course the extravert, sociable, sharing, caring, open, compromising, kind. Nowhere is there the a suggestion that the "SPD" way of being might be as natural to the person as the outgoing, sharing, unreserved, etc, one is to the extravert.

After feeling some relief that the "disorder" was not at all the leering bogeyman that "plankwrong" would have had us believe I was nonetheless intrigued by the many ways in which the portrait fitted me. The only difference being that it entirely missed out my sensory issues, and my intense interests, ( except that that could have been "hidden under" insulting references to unhealthy, evidently, obsessive love of internal/mental objects of fantasy and fascination! ). Parts of the description actually made so much sense to me, that I have achieved new insight into my own method of functioning which may prove creative.

However what I felt most of all was that the description as a whole seemed designed to culpabilise, to blame, and I realised that the biggest, perhaps the only important, difference between this diagnosis and Aspergers was the belief ( in the entire presentation of SPD) that we are masters of our fate; old empire-building ideas, ... the notion of free will.

One of the things that I love about the new diagnoses, like Aspergers, is that they seem to accept/recognise/acknowledge that "biology is destiny", that genes and environment ( in the richest sense of the word, including early and late childhood, aswell as adult, experience, and chemical/dietary factors, parents, and so on) , are us. ( Contra-causal) free will is bosh.

What "plankwrong"'s OP seemed to express more than anything else was a bitterness and resentment over our receiving, or claiming, a diagnosis which accepts that, and no longer blames us for being the way we are. I think that the old order of psychiatry has had its day.

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Last edited by ouinon on 20 Sep 2008, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think a big difference between schizoids and AS is that schizoids have an absence of emotion or feeling. In some ways they feel nothing for anyone or anything. I'm not like that.

Good thought. Interesting post.

Check out the description at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_p ... y_disorder

People diagnosed with "SPD" do have feelings. It is precisely their emotional pain, feelings of need, etc which leads some of them to seek out psychiatric help.

The idea/stereotype of their "emotional coldness" is based on their apparent/habitual state/outward appearance. The article even refers to the trouble psychiatrists have had in understanding this, and how discouraged some have become in the face of apparent ( but not in fact real) indifference or reservation in their patients, because they took the physical/facial lack of emotional affect/reaction for an inner state... ... ( How many times have AS been told, "Smile, it may never happen" etc etc?)


Thank you!

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And I think that it is important to ( re-) examine what is considered to be "emotional coldness" in this society. Who defines it? Some extraverts could look positively manic/pathologically over-excited/needy/disordered if our society was differently biased/constituted.
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I've known one personally for a long time and believe me, he is as cold as ice emotionally.

yes... first you have those "old order" definitions that treat the mind as something independant from a physical body, then base judgements of emotional coldness on the fact that some people don't LOOK like they feel anything, although inside their minds they may be feeling quite a lot... oh the irony!

the fact that you CAN have two people who look the same- (seem to show little emotion), but have one who actually doesn't feel emotion and have one who does, seems to be obvious that you need 2 different definitions of what those people are, and not just lump them both as the same thing.

Last edited by i_Am_andaJoy on 20 Sep 2008, 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's just the words that sound scary. Even after learning about Asperger's I still have always suspected SPD for myself, due the remarkable similarities, even though Aspergers really seems to fit me better. I would like to point out this notation in the wikipedia page on SPD.

Personality disorders are easy to confuse. There is also a "schizophrenic spectrum".


This is one example of misdiagnosis.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/misdiagnosing-personality-disorders-aspergers-disorder.html

This is why I personally do not seek a diagnosis. There are all types of disorders out there that I seem to have bits and peices of. Like you said, some are pretty scary. I think I'd rather not know what someone else thinks about what I think.

I've always been accused of being cold and uncaring. I have NEVER felt happiness, ever. I can't feel emotions. Maybe I have Schizoid personality disorder instead of AS.

It sounds like the perceptions of various people.

For all of thier lists, one is lacking, the impartial observer.

Some see me as scarey, some do not want to be around me, others act offended, most are indiferent, and a few like me. That is the base of run of the mill humans, not the psychobabble set who chose a new age religion over life.

Their view is everyone else has a problem, and they will define it.

The Psychobabble Defense Syndrome.

As far as I can tell, no one checks their work, and it has more to do with their personality, or lack there of.

It is mearly psychological warfare, undermining the stability of others.

They cannot deal with self, so everyone else is to blame.

Introverts/extroverts covers it for me. Plus Psych Major/nut jobs.

There's a schizoid support group, I think this is the longest running one around.

http://www.geocities.com/schizoidyg/sch ... lcome.html

Here's some of their blurb:

So what personalities do people with SPD have?
To be exact, no two schizoids are completely alike,
but one trait they all share is reclusiveness.
Schizoids, or people with SPD, genuinely enjoy being alone,
and would like to, ideally, spend most or all of their time in solitude.
They usually have a rather brief list of activities they enjoy.
Schizoids generally do not enjoy close relationships such as friendships,
and exhibit no desire for them.
They have few real friends, if any at all, and they have little
interest in pursuing romantic and/or sexual relationships with other people.
SPD also has an affective (emotional) element to it.
Some schizoids exhibit a limited ability to feel emotion and to take pleasure in life.
More often than not, however, schizoids simply exhibit
subdued emotions in social and interpersonal situations.
This is known as a "flattened affect."
Generally, schizoids have no such affective troubles when they are alone,
and hence have the same emotionally fulfilling lives as normal people:
they just prefer to enjoy their lives by themselves.


No two snowflakes are alike.

As previously mentioned, outside of reclusiveness,
the other SPD traits affect each individual schizoid differently.
Some schizoids may have little sex drive.
Others may have a big sex drive,
but no desire to share it with another person.
Still others would be willing to settle for sex
outside of the context of a romantic relationship.
There are even married schizoids who have gotten close to their partners
but who will naturally need more relationship "Space" than average folks.
As previously mentioned, some schizoids are less emotional than others.
Some, while having no real desire to take part in interpersonal situations,
can manage fine if they have to be in them, while other schizoids find it
always quite difficult to deal with other people.
Any of these so-called schizoid traits can be present in varying amounts.
For a psychiatric assessment of the diagnostic criteria for SPD
consult the Links Section of this Group.

That is not necessarily true. SPD is defined partly by flat affect, but that is not the absence of feeling; it's the absence of expressed feeling.

Additionally: Not all cases of SPD involve flat affect. And some cases of Asperger's do.

Technically, SPD and Asperger's cannot exist together because they are defined as mutually exclusive; if an Aspie fits criteria for SPD, he cannot be diagnosed with it because the SPD symptoms occur "during the [life-long] course" of a PDD. However, many Aspies do have schizoid traits. An asexual Aspie who does not find pleasure in socializing could also be diagnosed with SPD if the "during the course" criterion weren't present.

Differences:

--Schizoid personality involves not wanting to socialize. Asperger's involves low social skill, regardless of desire. (Many SPD cases do involve low social skills due to lack of practice, but with practice, someone with SPD could get up to NT standard. The issue is that he sees no point in it.)

--Schizoid personality has one trait that is almost never seen in a non-depressed Aspie, by definition: "Takes pleasure in few, if any, activities." That's because Aspie special interests and many stims are sources of great pleasure. I've described my special interests as "almost like falling in love".

--Not all Aspies are asexual. Many people with SPD are.

--Aspies can be extremely sensitive to praise or criticism; an SPD personality makes you rather indifferent to it.

--A significant number of Aspies are extroverted. SPD is extreme introversion.

SPD is probably one of the least troublesome psychological conditions it's possible to have, both for the person diagnosed with it and for society. While it is associated with an elevated risk of schizophrenia in some studies, SPD does not involve delusions, nor does it impair one's judgment or morality. It may disrupt the typical "mirroring" sort of empathy, in that people with SPD would not immediately feel bad on seeing another person suffer; but it does not appear to affect the chances that the person with SPD would help the suffering individual--they may, in fact, be better at it because they are not emotionally involved in the situation and keep a cool head. (Emotional detachment, an SPD characteristic, is required of doctors, paramedics, police officers, etc.)

There is indeed much speculation that SPD is not actually a mental illness. Unlike the other personality disorders, it seems to cause no direct distress. The only obstacle with SPD seems to be that schizoid individuals may be expected to connect more than they desire to do; and people around them--especially family--may expect more of them than they can give. Finding socialization boring and a waste of time can seem offensive to others who do not understand that this dislike is not personal.

Last edited by Callista on 20 Sep 2008, 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Shingle Effect topic

Ouinon, there are many different conditions that share similar symptoms. Heck, I even share some similarities with NTs (not too many, I hope! ). But seriously, I have never been introverted in my life. I am in my own world, but if someone interrupts me, I do not hesitate to complain.

I was labeled Schizophrenic at the age of 16. Then the same shrink stated that I shared some similarities with Autistic people. He looked puzzled. He had almost seen Aspergers (and may have entered history had he followed up on this, along with Hans). But NO. He second guessed himself and poured me into a mold containing paranoia and delusions. My third grade teacher thought I daydreamed too much and was therefore out of touch with reality. If reality would have been kinder, gentler and less bullying, I would have at least tried to join. Eventually I became permanently reclusive and I am NON-social, not antisocial. I prefer my own planet to the one full of backstabbers and warmongers, whom, I would say, suffer more from paranoid delusions and antisocial personalities than I ever would.

clearly in some cases it is true. as evidenced by my own experience and the website I quoted a couple of posts back. they're all schizoids, they should know what they're talking about.

I said "not necessarily". Not "never".

What I mean is that if somebody says "schizoid", you don't just assume "no emotions", because flat affect only means "no expressed emotion", and there's nothing there that rules out emotions that are there and not expressed. (I admit most of my information on this is from accounts from people with schizophrenia, who often report, "I was feeling it, but I couldn't express it.")

Callista, I have been reading your thoughts on the subject of schizophrenia and you come across as well educated possibly from experience dealing with others and seeking enlightment.

I often question my diagnosis of aspergers but am just realizing the differences in degrees and I question and second guess most everything till I reach a conclusion.

If aspergers is a spectrum, I think I'd probably not be the most high functioning aspie but not the most low. Somewhere in between.