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Brianruns10
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Asperger's and Avoidant Personality Disorder Reply with quote

I got onto the subject of Avoidant Personality Disorder (see link) and I was struck by how much it seemed to have in common with the social aspects of Asperger's. Do others feel like they have these characteristics described? Do you think APD is comorbid with AS? Or is possible that AS is APD, or APD is really part of AS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder

http://ivy_league0.tripod.com/rhyme_of_the_ancient_wanderer/id45.html

Best,
BR
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mitharatowen
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds exactly like me.
The wikipedia article makes me want to cry because it reminds me of my pain.. Crying or Very sad
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I understand, having an autistic spectrum disorder rules out the possibility of having a personality disorder.
Here is a list of comorbid conditions affecting those with ASDs:

Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD)
Although not officially a diagnostic category in the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), sensory processing disorder is widespread among all individuals on the autism spectrum, including those with Asperger’s Syndrome. Individuals with AS are usually over-responsive to sensory stimuli; loud noises, scratchy clothing, and unusual textures all serve as sources of irritation among those with AS.

Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
According to an article published on Medscape, one study of children with Asperger’s Syndrome showed that 62.5% of the participants also showed clinical symptoms indicating attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

Anxiety
Anxiety is extremely common among individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome. According to Tony Attwood, “We know that more people with autism spectrum disorder (ASD, e.g. Asperger’s syndrome, autism) experience anxiety and depression than people who do not have ASD.” Anxiety can take the form of obsessive-compulsive disorder, specific fears and phobias, and generalized anxieties.

Depression
According to an SMHAI study, approximately 1 in 15 individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome also meet the diagnostic criteria for depression. It is unknown exactly what causes the depression but it is likely that it is a combination between the individual’s realization of their difference from their peers and the ostracizing that occurs from these peers. Bullying is an extremely common problem among individuals with AS; this bullying could very likely lead to an increased rate of depression among the AS population.

Dyspraxia
Sometimes called motor-planning disorder, dyspraxia is seen in a large majority of individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome. In fact motor clumsiness is so common that one diagnostic model for Asperger’s Syndrome, Gillberg’s Criteria for Asperger’s Disorder, includes motor clumsiness as a symptom which must be present in order for an individual to receive an AS diagnosis.

Tourette’s Syndrome
Although not seen as commonly as ADHD and anxiety disorders, it is not unusual to see individuals with Tourette’s syndrome as well as Asperger’s Syndrome. Tourette’s syndrome is characterized by repetitive vocal and motor tics.

A few comorbid conditions aren't mentioned. They include, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, and Gender Identity Disorder.

Source:
http://autismaspergerssyndrome.suite101.com/article.cfm/aspergers_comorbid_conditions
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Zonder
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder (among other things) which is a bit different than Avoidant Personality. But basically, even with how much all of this overlaps, if you have fairly good interpersonal communication, many people will not consider you to have an Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Having said that, Dr. Lorna Wing, who is a pioneer in researching the Autism Spectrum, does not agree with the attempts by the Psychiatric Profession to separate everything into narrowly defined disorders because they overlap too much.

Z
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anna-banana
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah definately out of all personality disorders this one fits me best (apart from AS and ADD)
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Norah_W
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Asperger's and Avoidant Personality Disorder Reply with quote

Brianruns10 wrote:
I got onto the subject of Avoidant Personality Disorder (see link) and I was struck by how much it seemed to have in common with the social aspects of Asperger's. Do others feel like they have these characteristics described? Do you think APD is comorbid with AS? Or is possible that AS is APD, or APD is really part of AS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder

http://ivy_league0.tripod.com/rhyme_of_the_ancient_wanderer/id45.html

Best,
BR


I think that the social problems and failures that come with AS can cause Aspies to develop avoidant personality disorder. NT's can get it too, of course, but Aspies are more likely to because of all the social problems we have. I think more attention needs to be paid to this by doctors.
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've thought that too.
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Aurore
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, my God. That fits me perfectly.
On the other hand, I also have sensory problems, stimming and clumsiness, so I think I fall more clearly into AS. I agree with Norah in that AS can probably make you more likely to get this.
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Orbyss
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm learning more and more toward believing the diagnosis of 'avoidant personality disorder' is bunk, along with 'schizoid personality disorder'. I would put money on (and toward funding of research of) these being misdiagnosed AS or some other PDD.
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Sora
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have any of these 7 characteristics.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
From what I understand, having an autistic spectrum disorder rules out the possibility of having a personality disorder.


No. The ones you listed are the 'likely' co-morbids, not the 'only possible' ones.

ICD and DSM allow every other condition to be co-morbid with AS excluding anakastic personality disorder, attachment disorders of childhood, OCD, schizotypal disorder, simple schizophrenia (ICD-10) and other specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or for Schizophrenia. The DSM lists few, but has a section on how the ones the ICD lists and other disorders are to be differentiated from ASD symptoms.

Yet both manuals allow the possibility if the symptoms of these disorders do not exclusively appear in the course of autism.

AD(H)D explicitly excludes the possibility of having autism right now. That may change in the future. (Curious: The description on autism doesn't exclude the possibility of having AD(H)D.)

The official criteria of both the DSM and ICD don't have a list of co-morbids.

As of now, you can have chancer and autism, psychopathy and autism, AVP and autism, anxiety and autism, dyslexia and autism, be near-sighted and have autism... the list goes on.
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Sora. I read on another wp post a while ago that if someone is diagnosed with AS they cannot be diagnosed with a personality disorder later because the AS diagnosis precludes it, according to the DSM-IV.
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spudnik
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It fit me too, but I stim all the time, I also have some other very aspie issues,
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's been a lot of confusion about Asperger's and Personality disorders in this forum. Someone can have Asperger's and Schizoid Personality Disorder or Avoidant Personality Disorder, yet I see threads saying it's not really Asperger's it's really Schizoid Personality Disorder, just to make things even more confusing.
Knowing this makes things easier for me. I think I may have APD (Avoidant, not Antisocial, lol, too many disorders with the same acronyms) as a result of growing up with AS and being misunderstood because most people didn't know what it was, (except that it was ADHD which I got Ritalin for. It didn't really address the issues though, just got me to settle down some). I was diagnosed with ADHD but it didn't explain how I was.
I think I have APD, too and it would explain a lot of my maladaptive tendencies I have dealing with life.

from weblink wrote:
The ICD-10 (1994, p. 232) has a personality disorder called the anxious (avoidant) personality disorder characterized by feelings of tension, apprehension, insecurity and inferiority. These individuals wish to be liked and accepted but experience hypersensitivity to rejection and criticism. Personal attachments are restricted. People with the anxious personality disorder have a tendency to avoid activities by a habitual exaggeration of the potential dangers or risks involved. They believe that they are socially inept, personally unappealing and inferior.


Describes me. I am plagued with inferiority, anxiety, hopelessness, helplessness, worry, fear of failing, my entire personality exists of ways to avoid what I percieve causes me anxiety and fear.
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tomboy4good
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Symptoms
People with avoidant personality disorder are preoccupied with their own shortcomings and form relationships with others only if they believe they will not be rejected. Loss and rejection are so painful that these individuals will choose to be lonely rather than risk trying to connect with others.

*Hypersensitivity to criticism or rejection
*Self-imposed social isolation
**Extreme shyness in social situations, though feels a strong desire for close relationships
*Avoids interpersonal relationships
**Avoids physical contact because it has been associated with an unpleasant or painful stimulus.
*Feelings of inadequacy
*Severe low self-esteem
*Self loathing
*Mistrust of others
**Extreme shyness/timidity
**Emotional distancing related to intimacy
*Highly self-conscious
*Self-critical about their problems relating to others
*Loss of self-identity
*Problems in occupational functioning
*Lonely self-perception
*Feeling inferior to others
#Chronic substance abuse/dependence
???Investment in fixed fantasies

*Things with an asterisk mean in my situation, this is always true.
**Two asterisks means sometimes it's true.
#Never had this issue....ever!
???Not sure what "Investment in fixed fantasies" means.

But I also stim & have a lot of sensory issues as well. But definitely interesting!
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Aspie Score: 173/200, NT score 31/200: very likely an Aspie
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DX: Anxiety plus ADHD/Aspergers: inconclusive
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Callista
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orbyss wrote:
I'm learning more and more toward believing the diagnosis of 'avoidant personality disorder' is bunk, along with 'schizoid personality disorder'. I would put money on (and toward funding of research of) these being misdiagnosed AS or some other PDD.
There is a difference between being hampered by anxiety or disinterest and just not being good at socializing. One is neurological, the other is a mix of inherited personality, life experiences, and learned behavior. There are plenty of people who are quite neurotypical but so afraid of being unacceptable that they avoid socializing. Most people with schizoid PD have completely normal ability to socialize; they just don't like doing it, kind of the way most people are quite capable of doing long-division but don't prefer to spend their time that way.

I will grant you one thing: Asperger's does seem to predispose to either of those extreme personality types; it is rather adaptive, with poor social skills, to either become disinterested in socializing or to become very anxious about it. I have some schizoid traits, myself. But there are rather a lot of reasons that a neurotypical person might have these personality types as well.

If you are assuming that avoidant and schizoid PDs are actually just misdiagnosed Asperger's, then you are assuming that people with these personality types do not have normal social skills; you're also assuming odd communication, stims, and special interests (one symptom of SPD, anhedonia, tends to rule out special interests, but is not seen in all with SPD.) But that's just not so of most people. You'll see extreme introversion with both types; but PDDs are not introversion and introverts do not usually have PDDs. They're more likely to be connected, but that's as far as it goes.
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