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Anemone
Unicorn
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 1329
Location: gone hiking
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 Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Revisiting Empathy in Asperger Syndrome |
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Somebody likes us!
Who Cares? Revisiting Empathy in Asperger Syndrome
Kimberley Rogers, Isabel Dziobek, Jason Hassenstab, Oliver T. Wolf, Antonio Convit
J Autism Dev Disord (2007) 37:709–715
| Quote: | | "Abstract A deficit in empathy has consistently been cited as a central characteristic of Asperger syndrome (AS), but previous research on adults has predominantly focused on cognitive empathy, effectively ignoring the role of affective empathy. We administered the Interpersonal Reactivity Index (IRI), a multi-dimensional measure of empathy, and the Strange Stories test to 21 adults with AS and 21 matched controls. Our data show that while the AS group scored lower on the measures of cognitive empathy and theory of mind, they were no different from controls on one affective empathy scale of the IRI (empathic concern), and scored higher than controls on the other (personal distress). Therefore, we propose that the issue of empathy in AS should be revisited." |
Yes! Yes! Somebody likes us!
Unlike the EQ, which was created to demonstrate that autistic people are lower in empathy, the IRI was created to measure empathy in anybody. Autism wasn't even considered back in the day. Neither were any other specific demographic group - the IRI is a generic measure of empathy, divided into four distinct scales, measuring fantasy empathy, perspective taking, empathic concern, and personal distress. I had a thread on here earlier about the IRI (plus my webpage for the test), and while our scores were below the means posted with the original scale, they were still more or less in the middle. I couldn't do a statistical test because I didn't have a control group. These people had a control group.
| Quote: | | "The primary goal of this paper was to begin to describe the nature of both cognitive and affective empathy among individuals with AS, a group that, despite little direct empirical support, has been labeled as lacking in empathy." |
In other words, people assume we are low in empathy, but they don't usually bother to check. Very scientific, yah!
The researchers found that their adult AS subjects scored lower on perspective taking and a ToM test (Happé's Strange Stories, which looks like more advanced ToM, but I need to read up on it to be sure); they scored the same on empathic concern and even higher on personal distress. In other words, we may not know what's going on, but we care, we really do.
| Quote: | | "Although this finding is at variance with previous reports of deficits in empathy in individuals with AS (. . .), it is in keeping with anecdotal reports from parents and clinicians that suggest that autistic individuals can be very caring." |
Aww, gee. Thank you. And this last bit is what really gets my approval: the authors get that bad theory can be used against us out there in the real world.
| Quote: | | "A description of individuals with AS that includes ‘‘deficits in empathy’’ as a central characteristic carries with it several moral implications and may even lead to adverse social consequences. In light of the findings presented here, we propose that the issue of empathy deficits in AS be revisited and expanded to include more multi-dimensional analyses." |
What really impressed me is the tact with which the researchers made their point. Wish I knew how to be so tactful, and yet still get my point across.
I sure hope someone's listening to these guys.
***
If someone already posted on this paper I appear to have missed it. Perhaps before I joined? I think other papers have been mentioned, but I don't remember seeing this one. |
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Padium
For I am The One Who Is
Joined: Dec 14, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 2369
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting.
EDIT: Took the test, my highest was fantasy with a 19, lowest was perspective taking at 12, with the other two being 14 and 15.
Last edited by Padium on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garyww
Asylum Escapee
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 2391
Location: Napa, California
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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The study only confirms what 'we' have known for a long time. Hope it's distributed to the professionals and hope that they actually read it.
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I am one of those people who your mother used to warn you about. |
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Mage
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 1288
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I don't have any empathy. I don't know if it's an autistic trait, or if it's a trait that is co-morbid in many autistics, but it's the case with me. This doesn't mean I can't care, however. I do love my husband and my son very much. I am just incapable of empathy. |
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Danielismyname
Last is as good as first when you figure it
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8622
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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What's "affective empathy"?
Aside, I got this on your test (diagnosis of Autistic Disorder):
Fantasy: 3
Perspective-taking: 4
Empathetic Concern: 4
Personal Distress: 8
O, and I don't see it as something negative when someone says "us", "we" or "me" lack empathy; empathy doesn't mean much--it's like a lie, i.e., feeling an emotional state of someone even though you haven't actually been through what they have which makes it, whereas sympathy is something that's more true, i.e., you know what it's like to have a broken arm because you've had one before, so you can understand the pain when someone breaks their arm. |
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TPE2
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Fantasy: 22
Perspective taking: 10
Empathetic Concern: 15
Personal Distress: 20
[no diagnosis; the on-line tests - of course, with no clinical reliability - usually say that I have Schizoid PD] |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mage wrote: | | Personally, I don't have any empathy. I don't know if it's an autistic trait, or if it's a trait that is co-morbid in many autistics, but it's the case with me. This doesn't mean I can't care, however. I do love my husband and my son very much. I am just incapable of empathy. |
How can you love somebody whom you don't empathize with? |
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Kirska
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 839
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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What test?
_________________
"Shadow, my sweet shadow
to you I look no more" |
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Kirska
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 12, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 839
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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What test?
edit: nevermind I found it buried in there 
edit #2: what the heck, how did my edit make a new post
_________________
"Shadow, my sweet shadow
to you I look no more" |
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Mage
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 1288
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Mage wrote: | | Personally, I don't have any empathy. I don't know if it's an autistic trait, or if it's a trait that is co-morbid in many autistics, but it's the case with me. This doesn't mean I can't care, however. I do love my husband and my son very much. I am just incapable of empathy. |
How can you love somebody whom you don't empathize with? |
To me they are just completely separate feelings. That question is as irrelevant to me as "How can you love somebody whom you don't play tennis with?" |
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anna-banana
indifferent peapod
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 5598
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Danielismyname wrote: |
O, and I don't see it as something negative when someone says "us", "we" or "me" lack empathy; empathy doesn't mean much--it's like a lie, i.e., feeling an emotional state of someone even though you haven't actually been through what they have which makes it, whereas sympathy is something that's more true, i.e., you know what it's like to have a broken arm because you've had one before, so you can understand the pain when someone breaks their arm. |
I agree. I don't understand what's the deal with it, what's so wrong about lacking in empathy? 
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not a bug - a feature.
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elderwanda
Lemon Zing
Joined: Nov 18, 2008
Age: 42
Posts: 1372
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Fantasy 26
perspective-taking 8
empathic concern 10
personal distress 18
I'm not entirely sure what this actually means. I'm not diagnosed with AS or anything like that, although I suspect I'm mildly AS. |
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TPE2
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| If empathy is something like I become sad because the other person is sad, I think that is difficult to love someone without having empathy by her/him. |
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| TPE2 wrote: | | If empathy is something like I become sad because the other person is sad, I think that is difficult to love someone without having empathy by her/him. |
That's what I said. If there's no emotional reciprocity to speak of, I don't see how any kind of human relationship is possible. If what the other person goes through on a daily basis does not touch me emotionally, marriage would be a sham. |
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Fo-Rum
Toucan
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | TPE2 wrote: | | If empathy is something like I become sad because the other person is sad, I think that is difficult to love someone without having empathy by her/him. |
That's what I said. If there's no emotional reciprocity to speak of, I don't see how any kind of human relationship is possible. If what the other person goes through on a daily basis does not touch me emotionally, marriage would be a sham. |
Parents instantly love their unborn child. |
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