| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 7607
Location: The fine world of insomnia and coffee
|
 Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: Atheism vs. Neo-Marxism |
 |
|
Ok, I had a shpeal laid out and several paragraphs written but I think I should really just rewind, get the conversation started first, and see where it leads rather than drop my own hypothesis right off the top.
My question is this - is anyone else thinking that there is a logical chasm between traditional atheists and those who've come to atheism or hold their atheist views as a vehicle of marxism?
Also, do you think that there are far more marxism-induced atheists in the western world today than there are traditional atheists?
I think this topic is extremely important one because, IMO, its a huge current behind the scenes and - ok, I'll give at least one part of my own thoughts on this - it's had a lot to do with profoundly dumbing down and polluting the debate of ultimate issues (let alone politics) and has likely held equal with religious fundamentalism in terms keeping the intellectual ceiling of the debate in this country and many others; very low. |
|
| Back to top |
|
NeantHumain
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 4146
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think there were more Marxist or neo-Marxist atheists from the 1960s through the early 1990s. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 8869
Location: Omnipresent
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, typical atheists are usually just secular rationalists who use conventional societal epistemologies with a leaning towards rationalist or empiricist approaches and have conventional societal worldviews although usually leaning socially liberal. Marxists however, base their epistemologies on Marx influenced works, and have a Marxian viewpoint, which is on a far extreme that other atheists do not reach.
I think that regular atheists are more common than Marxians today.
_________________
Destroying reality since the end of time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 7151
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
With God, all things are possible.
Without God, all things are permissable... |
|
| Back to top |
|
DentArthurDent
Evolve Ye Christians & Dozers
Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 2142
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
with regard to empiricism. Marxism by its very nature is empiricist, Karl Marx theorised on the nature of capital and the likely consequences of capitalism, this theory has been supported time and again using empirical data. With regard to Marxism and Atheism I personally do not see a non belief in God to be fundamental to the principles of Marxism. So I regard non non believing Marxists to be atheists with a particular political agenda.
No I do not think there are more atheists with a Marxist agenda than not, unfortunately there are not many Marxists around at the moment
_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities" Sgt Pinback |
|
| Back to top |
|
twoshots
Boltzmann Brain
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 4229
Location: Boötes void
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DentArthurDent wrote: | | with regard to empiricism. Marxism by its very nature is empiricist, Karl Marx theorised on the nature of capital and the likely consequences of capitalism, this theory has been supported time and again using empirical data. |
Umm.. I'm sorry, which theory? *Admittedly* I'm not to savvy on the economics, but my impression is that Marx' economical theories aren't held in very high regard by mainstream economists (e.g. the labor theory of value).
_________________
* here for the nachos. |
|
| Back to top |
|
DentArthurDent
Evolve Ye Christians & Dozers
Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 2142
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| twoshots wrote: | | but my impression is that Marx' economical theories aren't held in very high regard by mainstream economists (e.g. the labor theory of value). |
Well he should be, it can be argued that he predicted the great depression and todays financial meltdown. He saw the fundamental problems associated with capitalism.
There is a very good essay on this issue titled 'The World Economic Crisis: A Marxist Analysis' at http://www.wsws.org or I can pm it to you if you are interested. Even if you do not agree with Marxism it gives a good analysis of the present crisis.
_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities" Sgt Pinback |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
Posts: 5474
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Marxists deny the the principle of identity as Aristotle understood it. Their "logic" is heavily influenced by the Hegelian dialectic. Most atheists simple do not believe in the existence of God or the gods. They use ordinary logic to ground their thinking. Marxists deny -religion- because of their theory of class power and structure. To Marxists religion is an instrument which the owning class uses to abuse and tyrannize the Proles. Religion is the Opiate of the People.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 8869
Location: Omnipresent
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DentArthurDent wrote: |
Well he should be, it can be argued that he predicted the great depression and todays financial meltdown. He saw the fundamental problems associated with capitalism.
There is a very good essay on this issue titled 'The World Economic Crisis: A Marxist Analysis' at http://www.wsws.org or I can pm it to you if you are interested. Even if you do not agree with Marxism it gives a good analysis of the present crisis. |
Well, to be honest, it is more often argued that he didn't predict any of these things, and that the problems of capitalism are different than anything he predicted.
I'll try to read the paper later, when I am not quite as tired.
_________________
Destroying reality since the end of time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
