I just tore up my degrees - School and College Life

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I just tore up my degrees

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techn0teen
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Sep 15, 2010
Age: 21
Posts: 663

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Government isn't hiring anyone. That is nothing personal.

The government is not hiring people with a humanities based education unless it is linguistics. They are hiring people with mathematics, science, and engineering based backgrounds but not usually for entry level jobs.

I look at the Department of Homeland Security's site, and they have had the same unfilled positions for an expert cyber security analyst for months now. I get their newsletter which constantly asks for people to fulfill that position. No one bites because no one is qualified or qualified people have better opportunities.

------

In my case, I realized that a CS degree is worthless if I do not specialize. So I am going to make myself as marketable as possible. I will learn and get certified in German/Arabic, know how to apply my computer science knowledge, make a portfolio of these applications, and then apply for positions. I'm going to dress professional to all my classes, get internships, etc.

People, you HAVE to make yourself marketable. Degrees might get your foot in the door but they are no guarantee you will keep or even get the job.

GaryOak
Hummingbird

Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 20

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:05 am Post subject:

I feel really bad for you man. That was a ton of work and thousands of dollars worth of investment, but I promise you it wasn't in vain. My step sis was actually in that situation. She graduated from college with a education major (they have an AMAZING education program at her college) and got put 120k in the hole. Right now where we live they had some major education cut sand she was so stressed out. After months she finally got into the system as a preschool headstart teacher. You just gotta keep trying and you may not get into the job you want to, but eventually you will get there. I wish I could help you further but I'm a college student myself with a different major. Only advice I can give you is keep trying.

Synecdoche
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: Sep 04, 2010
Posts: 261

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:59 am Post subject:

I'm an English Major. Therefore, I am homeless (but not really). I've got one more year and I'll tell you what, I don't even plan on using this degree. To me, college is just a skill building industry. It doesn't teach you anything except how to link up and join with one of the many service organizations out there. This is good, I guess. But people become so infatuated with their skillsets that they think they matter more than anyone else. They're not intelligent, they're just well read and that's all they're good for, is obeying what they read. Knowledge is something you can gain without going to college. For me, I came to college to pick up people's viewpoints. Sure, I could've easily gone into some workforce or online or a cult or something but I felt that the place and time I want to be in is in college. It breathed life into me, in more ways than one. That's inspiration. So, don't worry too much. Or hell, maybe I'm wrong and you should start worrying like crazy.

DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9301
Location: Northern California

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:29 am Post subject:

I loved that, synecdoche, "it breathed life into me." THAT is what education is all about. As long as you have that experience, and share that sense of it, it has value. _________________ Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS. --- Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act

SadAspy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 14, 2010
Posts: 695
Location: U.S.A.

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject:

We all need to just become high school dropouts and get union jobs shoveling sh**. That's the future of the U.S. economy. I can't believe these douches right out of high school are making more than I've ever made.

DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9301
Location: Northern California

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject:

OK, SadAspy, I'm going to take this from another angle: Do you have the skills that these peers have? The skills that got them and are making them successful in these "direct from high school" jobs? Give it some deep thought; it isn't always obvious what skills someone with less education might have that you don't, but they exist. Most of these are things that people tend to either have, or not have, and most of them are things that I, at this point in my life, am well aware that I do not have, and that I am also aware most employers value for good reasons: Organizational skills Infectious positive attitude Networking / people skills Work speed Physical strength or agility / strong fine or gross motor skill Mental strength / nothing gets to you Fearless, "go for it" attitude And so on. Someone gifted with those skills may slip into a career in sales, construction, the trades, transportation, manufacturing et al without a higher education, and do quite well at it. But do you have those skills? If you don't, as I pretty much didn't, then that was never a real option for you. I was horrible at my high school summer jobs, really struggling to find my place and add value. For someone else, maybe those summer jobs could have led to a career, but for me that was never going to happen. What I NEEDED to acquire to make my way in the world was a unique knowledge set that held value in and by itself. So, I am a CPA / tax specialist. I get paid to know and understand what few people have the patience or intelligence for, and by holding that knowledge base I can get away with being slow, or less than perfect socially, etc etc etc. You may think that a job like cleaning houses is easy, something anyone could do, but I have now hired enough different maid services to know that is NOT the case. A good maid service has to do your house right, get it cleaned top to bottom, in a few short hours. So they have to be fast. And every home they walk into has different priorities, and different guidelines, so they have to remember and follow all those nit picky details while also being fast and thorough. This is considered one of the most basic jobs in the world, but guess what? I could not do that job! I would be HORRIBLE at it. So it is a dang good thing that I got an education and don't have to try. Getting into the workforce was hard for me, even with my very marketable degree. I was nervous in interviews, completely unaware of what employers really looked for, and so on and so on. My first few jobs after school didn't go all that well because they didn't allow me much opportunity to do what I do best. It was all a rough time, and I didn't have to start in nearly as difficult an economy as you are having to start in. So, OK, it sucks. You are off to a really rough and disappointing start. But don't start thinking you would magically have it better on the road that Jane Smith took, because here is another reality: you are not Jane Smith. You have no idea what factors allowed Jane Smith to be successful, and even less idea if you could have duplicated any of them. So you got your degrees and tried to give yourself the best shot you could for the unique person you are. Don't EVER regret that, no matter how frustrating it gets. Someday I hope you can look back on the path and understand where you went right. And if not that, at least that there was a positive reason your life went the way it did. For almost every crappy thing I went through, I really can look back now and say, "oh, I had to go through that because ..." Getting to the other side of this rough spot will be hard, but you WILL get through. _________________ Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS. --- Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act

zer0netgain
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 4075

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject:

DW_a_mom wrote:

OK, SadAspy, I'm going to take this from another angle:

[snip]

That says a lot.

I'm coming up on my 10 year anniversary of graduating law school. While I chose not to practice law, I figured I'd have no problem finding a good job (9/11 happened just as I finished school). Well, it's 10 years and I'm in a dead-end job. I can't find a good career opportunity to save my life, but someone who finished the same time I did (and lives in the same region) is doing well...last I checked.

The only "wake up call" I get over feeling inadequate is that this guy got his first job (clerking for a federal judge) because his daddy pulled some strings to open that door. That job led to getting on with the local prosecutor's office. That job led to getting a contract position with the federal DOJ office...where I believe he is today.

So, it was his family connections that got his foot in the door. Would he be so "successful" but for that opportunity? I don't know. I don't have such connections. I don't do well opening doors on my own. I can't compare myself to others who enjoy certain "advantages" over me.

GoonSquad
Gadfly or Fly Food?
Phoenix

Joined: May 12, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 3593
Location: International House of Paincakes...

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:56 am Post subject:

@OP So, with a master’s degree, have you considered teaching? In my neck of the woods the local community college is always looking for adjunct faculty. Part time work, especially work that uses your degree is better than no work at all. My favorite sociology professor started as a community college adjunct professor. After getting her foot in the door, she’s adjunct faculty at the college, at the university, and she has a full time position doing data analysis for the college too! _________________ If someone is able to show me that what I think or do is not right, I will happily change, for I seek the truth, by which no one was ever truly harmed. It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.~Marcus Aurelius

SadAspy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 14, 2010
Posts: 695
Location: U.S.A.

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Organizational skills
Infectious positive attitude
Networking / people skills
Work speed
Physical strength or agility / strong fine or gross motor skill
Mental strength / nothing gets to you
Fearless, "go for it" attitude

How sad it is that these are more valued than intelligence and knowledge?

I'm really sick and tired of the glorification of blue-collar work. Unfortunately, I think it's only getting worse. We're creating a white-collar underclass (i.e. educated people who are unemployed or underemployed), while idolizing those who did poorly in high school.

zer0netgain wrote:

I'm coming up on my 10 year anniversary of graduating law school. While I chose not to practice law, I figured I'd have no problem finding a good job (9/11 happened just as I finished school). Well, it's 10 years and I'm in a dead-end job. I can't find a good career opportunity to save my life, but someone who finished the same time I did (and lives in the same region) is doing well...last I checked.

The only "wake up call" I get over feeling inadequate is that this guy got his first job (clerking for a federal judge) because his daddy pulled some strings to open that door. That job led to getting on with the local prosecutor's office. That job led to getting a contract position with the federal DOJ office...where I believe he is today.

So, it was his family connections that got his foot in the door. Would he be so "successful" but for that opportunity? I don't know. I don't have such connections. I don't do well opening doors on my own. I can't compare myself to others who enjoy certain "advantages" over me.

Agree completely.

GoonSquad wrote:

So, with a master’s degree, have you considered teaching?

Would love to teach. Have applied for several teaching positions...have never heard back. I'm guessing it's due to my lack of experience, although I was a TA in grad school.

Orwell
Outer Party Member
Phoenix

Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 13715
Location: Room 101

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:18 am Post subject:

GaryOak wrote:

That was a ton of work and thousands of dollars worth of investment, but I promise you it wasn't in vain. My step sis was actually in that situation. She graduated from college with a education major (they have an AMAZING education program at her college) and got put 120k in the hole. Right now where we live they had some major education cut sand she was so stressed out. After months she finally got into the system as a preschool headstart teacher. You just gotta keep trying and you may not get into the job you want to, but eventually you will get there.

That is a horrible idea. You should never go 100k in debt for an education degree. You'll never earn enough money to pay that back as a teacher. Heck, in my state teachers are paid so little they qualify for food stamps.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9301
Location: Northern California

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject:

SadAspy, I've been in the work world long enough now to understand why those skills are valued. Business is about making money, creating the most consistently solid product possible at the least cost. Even in a knowledge based profession, most of the actual work day is churning out rote work. But you can't see it as rote work, or you won't send out the expected quality product. In my job you have to be organized, fast, sharp eye for detail, neat, able to simplify the complex pleasantly for a client, and smart enough to know when it's time to turn off the production machine and think. I get away with being slower by putting out a perfect product and being brilliant when everything is falling apart, but I still see how and why other skill set balances add a lot of value. If you don't value any of those qualities, you don't yet understand business. If you don't understand business, you are going to have a difficult time showing a potential employer how you would add value. This is a gap that needs to get filled so that you can be effective in your job search. I saw the first positive spark from you in this discussion when someone mentioned teaching. I hope you will pursue that. Join networking groups; whatever. Connect to people who are teaching, and see if they can point you in the right direction. One thing I've observed over the years is that positive attitude - and a few little connections - both make a big difference. _________________ Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS. --- Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act

SadAspy
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 14, 2010
Posts: 695
Location: U.S.A.

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject:

DW_a_mom wrote:

SadAspy, I've been in the work world long enough now to understand why those skills are valued. Business is about making money, creating the most consistently solid product possible at the least cost. Even in a knowledge based profession, most of the actual work day is churning out rote work. But you can't see it as rote work, or you won't send out the expected quality product. In my job you have to be organized, fast, sharp eye for detail, neat, able to simplify the complex pleasantly for a client, and smart enough to know when it's time to turn off the production machine and think. I get away with being slower by putting out a perfect product and being brilliant when everything is falling apart, but I still see how and why other skill set balances add a lot of value.

Why do you assume I'm applying mostly with businesses? I mostly apply for government or non-profit jobs.

Quote:

If you don't value any of those qualities, you don't yet understand business. If you don't understand business, you are going to have a difficult time showing a potential employer how you would add value. This is a gap that needs to get filled so that you can be effective in your job search.

I didn't say they shouldn't be valued at all, but MORE than intelligence and education?

With regards to manual labor specifically, you're right...I don't value these skills. Monkeys, machines, or cheap Mexicans can do these jobs. There. I SAID IT, and I don't care who I offended either. I'm sick of these people who've never been to college thinking they're entitled to 60 grand a year, while me, zeronetgain, and cyanide are punished for being responsible. And don't tell me it's the free market either...it's unions like the UAW whose greed bankrupted the auto industry, which then required a government bailout. Then these slackers whine that government should retrain them.

Quote:

I saw the first positive spark from you in this discussion when someone mentioned teaching. I hope you will pursue that. Join networking groups; whatever. Connect to people who are teaching, and see if they can point you in the right direction. One thing I've observed over the years is that positive attitude - and a few little connections - both make a big difference.

Yeah, but I've never gotten a callback when I applied for these jobs.

zer0netgain
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 4075

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject:

Orwell wrote:

GaryOak wrote:

There is a rub there....

If he is in the USA, consolidates with the Department of Education and goes into the Income Contingent Repayment or Income Based Repayment plans, if he works for a government agency (most all public schools should qualify), in 10 years of qualified payments in that job his loans would be forgiven tax-free.

So, unless public schools don't count as government entities, he'd not have to worry about how to repay the loans in that job.

GoonSquad
Gadfly or Fly Food?
Phoenix

Joined: May 12, 2007
Age: 43
Posts: 3593
Location: International House of Paincakes...

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject:

zer0netgain wrote:

Orwell wrote:

GaryOak wrote:

Just another reason I switched from History to Technology Education... Twisted Evil

_________________
If someone is able to show me that what I think or do is not right, I will happily change, for I seek the truth, by which no one was ever truly harmed. It is the person who continues in his self-deception and ignorance who is harmed.~Marcus Aurelius

DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9301
Location: Northern California

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject:

SadAspy wrote:

Why do you assume I'm applying mostly with businesses? I mostly apply for government or non-profit jobs.

My apologies for not watching the precision in my language. I use the term "business" here broadly, as in anyone hiring. I know there are some variations in what private sector jobs look for v. public sector, but most of what I wrote still applies, you just have to change a few words around. My employment experience is in the private sector, so I'm just used to talking business. But I've done a lot of pro-bono stuff in the public sector, as well, so I'm not totally clueless on what job applicants need.

When I said in another post that "government isn't hiring anyone" I meant that as a net term, ie overall they are cutting back more than they are expanding, which means that most vacancies can be filled by someone with experience in that particular type of job, even if it wasn't required, they will usually hire from among their own first.

Quote:

I didn't say they shouldn't be valued at all, but MORE than intelligence and education?

It depends on the exact job. If the job is to sit at a desk and meet with the public, then inter-personal skills will be a high priority. If the job is to analyze statistics and patterns, then relevant education will take precedence. The truth is the day to day work of most jobs is a mixture, and employers will value or not value education depending on how often they need the creative or technical thinking, and how easy it is to find the right information in a reference book, v. already knowing it.

My point in bringing it up is not to say the education does not have value, but to help you understand how employers see the value, which is as just one piece in a bigger puzzle. You can't just send out resumes and assume the education sells itself; you have to address all the other facets an employer might look for. With each job you apply for, you will have to consider how the education is going to weigh, and how far it will get you.

Unfortunately I know nothing about how a political science degree might get used in the real world, so I can't get more specific. The political science majors I know tend to be involved in some version of sales and marketing, which to me reflects more of who they always were, than the specific degree earned, although they needed to have a degree (in almost anything) to get the foot in the door, too.

I'm in a profession that attracts shy people, yet excelling requires that you be good with people. The person who can talk the client into believing he is the best CPA in the world will do better than than the one who actually is the best CPA in the world. Because regardless of how good your work is, if you haven't convinced the client that it is good, you've lost. And, so, the smart enough former jocks move ahead fast and the smarter technicians have to find a niche.

When I interviewed people, I had been around long enough to know who would get frustrated with that reality, and who would thrive under it. My job was to hire those who would thrive under it, even if they were the weaker candidate today.

The same is true in law, actually, from what I've observed.

List positions that interest you and I'll tell you the skills I would assume the employer is going to be looking for.

Quote:

Yeah, but I've never gotten a callback when I applied for these jobs.

Network. Don't give up. The last teaching position I saw open up got 200 applications. Which means you will probably have to try 200 times to get a bite. Accept the numbers game and keep at it.
_________________
Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS.
---
Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act

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