MrXxx
Moderator/Enigmatus Paradoxius
Joined: May 12, 2010
Posts: 5678
Location: New England
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 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Jono wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | alright that was silly, I guess I still disagree with some peoples opinions on this....but it was nothing to get all mental over I guess. |
No, you were right. A five year old would not be considered by any judiciary to have criminal capacity and therefore would not be held responsible for his/her actions. There's an age limit even for a juvenile court. |
Bam! There it is! Pretty much, in a nutshell what I've been saying all along! (Partly anyway)
Yes, there are age limits. If you haven't noticed though, those limits occasionally are lowered drastically due to the seriousness of crimes committed by younger and younger children.
Anyway, in a nutshell, here's my assessment of the conversation so far;
I think there's been a lot of misunderstanding on both sides. I think that some have read more into others words than the writers intended. There's a huge semantics problem here.
I don't really believe that at the core of everyone's opinions here, anyone is as that far off from any other as they think. It's a communication issue, which is a totally different discussion. That said, I've got stuff to do. This really isn't worth arguing over.
Hope the kid gets the help he needs. 'nuff said.
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MrXxx is taking a long sabbatical, and no longer moderating. |
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heavenlyabyss
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 530
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| aghogday wrote: | Per the Defense of Infancy Laws in the US, Virginia does not specify a minimum age of responsibility for a child to charged with a crime, as well as some other states. However, in states that don't specify a limit, the defense can be used per common law, which sets the minimum age at 7, if a child was charged in the state.
Technically the child could be charged, but it is extremely unlikely that the child would be found guilty, because of the Defense of Infancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy
So, even though realistically it is extremely unlikely the child will be charged, the news report can't say one way or another, until the technical decision has been made.
There is no record of any child in the US, actually found guilty of a crime at age 5.
However, there was similiar speculation that a child at age 5 might be charged for drowning another child in a bathtub, last Summer, that raised concerns nationwide. As in this case, it was never stated that the child was going to be charged, just that it wasn't clear if the child would be charged.
In a more recent case, a DA actually brought charges of sexual assault on a child of age 6, for playing doctor with another child. This was the only case I can find anywhere that a child that young had actually been charged with a crime. It's is generating outrage for good reason.
The DA defended her action by stating the legislature hadn't provided a minimum age to proceed with charges, but the result of the DA's action of bringing those charges against the child is a federal lawsuit against the DA by the parents, seeking millions in damages.
The boy being charged was previously diagnosed with ADHD, and has suffered trauma as a result of the incident. Surprised it wasn't linked here and discussed, unless I overlooked it. It's much more controversial that the current topic.
http://www.channel3000.com/news/29827742/detail.html
The boy in the stabbing incident is going to receive somekind of required intervention to change his behavior, but the likelyhood of him actually being charged with a crime and found guilty, is practically zero, per precedence of criminal charges filed against five year olds in the US.
Not only would it result in outrage in the US, it could also result in outrage from International Human Rights Organizations. And, potentially result in lawsuits as well.
And finally, there is absolutley no possibility that the child could be charged outside of the juvenile justice system, because the laws in Virginia set that minimum age at 14. |
Interesting. I read the article you posted and that would be a case of the court system going too far in my opinion.
I very vividly remember a friend of mine asking me if I wanted to play doctor when I was in my youth. I was very young at the time (maybe 6 or so?) and didn't know what the hell what he was talking about. When he explained it, I just kind of said no in revolt, lol. He was the same gender of me by the way (male). So nothing ever came of it, we just didn't play doctor, and I never told my parents about it.
It kind of makes me wonder though, where did this kid get this idea in the first place?? Really makes me wonder. Again, I don't think punishment of the child would have been appropriate. I mean what I wonder and what disturbs slightly is where did he learn the idea from?
Same thing holds true for this stabby kid. I mean, it's just weird. It's not normal 5-year old behavior, even if the kid has ADHD. It's just not normal. |
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aghogday
KATiE MiA
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 4740
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| heavenlyabyss wrote: | | aghogday wrote: | Per the Defense of Infancy Laws in the US, Virginia does not specify a minimum age of responsibility for a child to charged with a crime, as well as some other states. However, in states that don't specify a limit, the defense can be used per common law, which sets the minimum age at 7, if a child was charged in the state.
Technically the child could be charged, but it is extremely unlikely that the child would be found guilty, because of the Defense of Infancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy
So, even though realistically it is extremely unlikely the child will be charged, the news report can't say one way or another, until the technical decision has been made.
There is no record of any child in the US, actually found guilty of a crime at age 5.
However, there was similiar speculation that a child at age 5 might be charged for drowning another child in a bathtub, last Summer, that raised concerns nationwide. As in this case, it was never stated that the child was going to be charged, just that it wasn't clear if the child would be charged.
In a more recent case, a DA actually brought charges of sexual assault on a child of age 6, for playing doctor with another child. This was the only case I can find anywhere that a child that young had actually been charged with a crime. It's is generating outrage for good reason.
The DA defended her action by stating the legislature hadn't provided a minimum age to proceed with charges, but the result of the DA's action of bringing those charges against the child is a federal lawsuit against the DA by the parents, seeking millions in damages.
The boy being charged was previously diagnosed with ADHD, and has suffered trauma as a result of the incident. Surprised it wasn't linked here and discussed, unless I overlooked it. It's much more controversial that the current topic.
http://www.channel3000.com/news/29827742/detail.html
The boy in the stabbing incident is going to receive somekind of required intervention to change his behavior, but the likelyhood of him actually being charged with a crime and found guilty, is practically zero, per precedence of criminal charges filed against five year olds in the US.
Not only would it result in outrage in the US, it could also result in outrage from International Human Rights Organizations. And, potentially result in lawsuits as well.
And finally, there is absolutley no possibility that the child could be charged outside of the juvenile justice system, because the laws in Virginia set that minimum age at 14. |
Interesting. I read the article you posted and that would be a case of the court system going too far in my opinion.
I very vividly remember a friend of mine asking me if I wanted to play doctor when I was in my youth. I was very young at the time (maybe 6 or so?) and didn't know what the hell what he was talking about. When he explained it, I just kind of said no in revolt, lol. He was the same gender of me by the way (male). So nothing ever came of it, we just didn't play doctor, and I never told my parents about it.
It kind of makes me wonder though, where did this kid get this idea in the first place?? Really makes me wonder. Again, I don't think punishment of the child would have been appropriate. I mean what I wonder and what disturbs slightly is where did he learn the idea from?
Same thing holds true for this stabby kid. I mean, it's just weird. It's not normal 5-year old behavior, even if the kid has ADHD. It's just not normal. |
Not sure if it was mentioned in the specific article I linked, but it was speculated that the child got the idea from an examination by a doctor, for a problem that he had associated with the specific kind of "playing doctor" that was referenced in the article.
The "deviance factor" may have played a role in a decision to prosecute, but it may be the adults that were applying pornographic standards in their minds, that were not even associated with the act.
With the stabby kid, the article mentioned that the had been observed fighting physically with a parent and had anger issues. I'm sure he will get help for that.
That part is not that unusual for a five year old kid. Picking up a sharp object and hurting another kid isn't that unusual either. But, picking up a sharp object and hurting three kids is unusual. Particularly, when the article is phrased "5 year old stabs three children over juice box". That makes it sound like lethal force was used, however the kids were not seriously injured in the fight, nor do they explain what the sharp object was.
We don't have all the details of what happened, but the headlines in the article made the kid sound like a psychopathic killer, rather than a five year old with anger issues that picked up a sharp object and hurt three other kids with it in a fight.
A newspaper has to use headlines to get people to read their articles, but the headline that was used, to me, was hyped for publication, to headline the child's problems in the worst light possible.
Sources do it to celebrities and politicans, but doing it to a five year old child does not seem like an ethical approach for a reputable source .
The sad thing is, as a culture we are so used to seeing life sensationalized, that while people didn't like the idea of the child potentially being charged, I'm not sure anyone noticed that the headline was sensationalized making the child's behavior sound worse than it needed to.
I doubt a major newspaper would do it or it would be reflected like that on an actual major TV news network, in recognition that the subject was a five year old child.
The internet has taken us into the age of a "National Enquirer" Culture. People knew what "National Enquirer" meant in regard to credibility, but it's much harder to determine it from various sources on the internet. Especially, when so many appear to be playing by "National Enquirer" rules.
It's really hard to get people's attention; the headlines we see reflect it. |
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