"It's my birthday, so vote against 'Gay Marriage'" - Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

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"It's my birthday, so vote against 'Gay Marriage'"

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puddingmouse
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject:

AngelRho wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

but public school is particularly friendly to children who don't fit the "norm"

Say WHAT??? Since WHEN???

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Vigilans
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject:

AngelRho wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

but public school is particularly friendly to children who don't fit the "norm"

Say WHAT??? Since WHEN???

I think he means that the administrations are lax in enforcing behavioral standards compared to a private school (which might be all boys/girls, or require uniforms, etc). Students themselves in public schools are certainly not friendly to those who don't fit the norm. I can vouch for that Laughing

I'm sure many here can, unfortunately
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CrazyCatLord
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Some have kept their kids locked up for years, actually. I don't see how that's relevant, though, as that could happen anywhere.

It could happen here too, but only until the children turn six. At some point, the police would inquire why the kids don't show up for school.

The police would get involved here, too, but we're assuming people know the child even exists. I remember a couple of years back an 18 year old (or possibly 17?) was reported as a run-away and only years later was it discovered her father actually had constructed a secret room where he locked her up in and impregnated her several times. There were 3 children locked up with her, and I think they later confirmed at least three others had died from malnutrition and abuse.

That's 6 children nobody knew existed and a teenager (turned adult in captivity) that people had been fooled into believing ran off.

That reminds me of the Josef Fritzl case in Austria, which was quite similar. He fathered seven children with his own captive daughter in a soundproof hidden cellar below his house.

I agree that in cases like this, there is nothing to prevent parental abuse unless the neighbors notice something unusual. But in most cases, the birth of a child is on public record. If those children grow up in an abusive household, they are at least temporarily save from parental abuse during school hours. There were many cases where teachers have noticed that there was something not quite right in a child's family environment.

Which reminds me of the Muslim girls who went to school with me. Their mothers would escort them to school and pick them up after school, always accompanied by other female relatives since none of them was allowed to leave the house without chaperones. It must have deeply irked the parents, especially the fathers, that they couldn't keep their daughters under lock and key 24 hours a day. It probably also irked them that their daughters got an education and learned something besides cooking, cleaning and being a sex slave / incubator. For them, compulsory school education was even more of a blessing than it was for me.

Last edited by CrazyCatLord on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

TeaEarlGreyHot
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject:

Why do you assume it irked them? _________________ Do you bury me when I'm gone? Do you teach me while I'm here? Just as soon as I belong Then it's time I disappear

CrazyCatLord
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Why do you assume it irked them?

Because orthodox Muslims don't want their daughters to get an education, or at least not a secular Western education. They don't want them to have any contact at all with our sinful and debauched Western culture (which might cause them to lose their virginity before marriage, or at least lose their headscarfs and ankle-length coats). Girls are meant to stay at home with their mothers and aunts until they are given into an arranged marriage.

AngelRho
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 pm Post subject:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Also, what's wrong with not owning a TV?

That sounds familiar. There was a church in my hometown like that. The preacher basically had tight control over pretty much every aspect of family life. The people themselves had the prevailing attitude that they were better than anyone else and they were the only people going to heaven.

The religious issue of owning a tv/radio is simply exposure to secular content they feel is inappropriate for children. It's basically the devil reaching into your home. I can see how they have a point--as gross as it is to think about, even Disney content aimed at pre-teens and early teens is mildly sexualized. And it's not just about the kids, either. They don't want to risk negative influence to any congregants.

At least that's what they'll SAY. They'll believe everything their pastor tells them. On the one hand, time taken to watch TV is time you could be reading the Bible. Or having a TV represents one's desire to accumulate worldly possessions. But what is frightening to me is that money spent on a TV could be given to the church...

A agree with doing my Christian duty to tithe. My church has a monthly financial report available to any member if there's ever any question as to where the money is going. Certain Pentecostals will live a minimalist existence while their leaders are indulging in excesses--nice cars, fancy houses, etc. I say if you want to see a person's faith in action, forget about all the fake speaking in tongues garbage. Ease up on people's personal lives and see if they'll tithe willingly.

I practically live at my church--but that is a choice I've made on my own and easy to do given my current circumstances.

I find it disturbing that some churches don't give their congregants any room. My wife works with destitute people all the time and has seen on their bank statements how much they give to their churches. When she asks them why so much, they get all nervous and explain that they HAVE to. Why? Because they have to report every penny they make to their churches and back that up with pay stubs. The financial officer at our church is a CPA and has over an hour of commute to get to work. She's the only person who knows who gives what and how much part-time staff such as myself get paid (we're advised not to discuss it, but I make about what you'd expect for my line of work. It's not a big secret how much musicians get paid). This might not immediately seem like a big deal. But it does help ensure that the pastor isn't giving any special treatment based on how much money they give. As far as he's concerned, regardless of how much money the rich guys make, they're still not giving as much as they should--but he'll never know. Once church leadership becomes so intrusive that it is concerned with you individually and demands to know how much you get paid, it's time to find a different place of worship.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject:

AngelRho, I knew some churches did that but I really was curious why the no TV part. I don't own one myself, but it's a personal choice. I don't, as of right now, go to any church but was raised (and plan to go back as soon as I figure out logistics) in the LDS church. I think one should always be careful what organized religion they choose to join, but obviously not everyone understands or sees the warning signs that indicate the religion may be a cult. _________________ Do you bury me when I'm gone? Do you teach me while I'm here? Just as soon as I belong Then it's time I disappear

CrazyCatLord
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Also, what's wrong with not owning a TV?

Nothing, unless a religious cult forbids its members to own a TV, go to the movies, or read "worldly" literature. Which is pretty much what the New Apostolic Church did back then.

I probably should have mentioned that this was in times before the internet. Nowadays, I don't see the need for TV anymore either, but back then it was the only window to the world aside from newspapers and radio. I might have grown up to be a much more socially functional person if I could have observed neurotypical (and non-deluded) people on TV.

Hmm.... I don't think the TV was ever that important but okay.

I think that TV series like Star Trek inspired many kids to want to become a scientist like Spock or an engineer like Scotty. I missed out on all those influences, and also on memes that heavily influenced the youth language (like the internet does nowadays). As a result, I had very little to talk about with my peers at school, which made it even harder for me to socialize and find friends than it already is for most aspies.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Also, what's wrong with not owning a TV?

Hmm.... I don't think the TV was ever that important but okay.

I had TV as a kid and still couldn't find anything to relate to my peers with. shrug

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Oodain
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject:

one also loses out on the actual creative influence of some shows, not to mention documentaries. i loved the discovery channel as a child, still do, i dont own a tv because i have a computer and my internet service includes web-tv. _________________ //through chaos comes complexity// the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull, woe be to the nose who nears it.

Vigilans
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject:

I... watch Youtube and other video web pages on my TV _________________ Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

CrazyCatLord
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

AngelRho, I knew some churches did that but I really was curious why the no TV part. I don't own one myself, but it's a personal choice. I don't, as of right now, go to any church but was raised (and plan to go back as soon as I figure out logistics) in the LDS church.

I think one should always be careful what organized religion they choose to join, but obviously not everyone understands or sees the warning signs that indicate the religion may be a cult.

People didn't really get a choice. My grandparents were already New Apostolic Christians, and probably their parents and grandparents before them. Each generation indoctrinated their children, or rather allowed their church to indoctrinate them.

TV and other "worldly" media was frowned upon because the church wanted to restrict contact with the mainstream culture. Too much normality might have made people realize how weird their beliefs and their lifestyle were.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject:

Oodain wrote:

one also loses out on the actual creative influence of some shows, not to mention documentaries.
i loved the discovery channel as a child, still do,

i dont own a tv because i have a computer and my internet service includes web-tv.

Yeah, that's true. I watched a lot of Discovery and have always gravitated towards documentaries.

I don't own a TV because I got bored with it. I'm sure my sister gets irritated with me when I visit her and roll my eyes at their TV in every room that's always got to be on a carbon copy show.
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Do you bury me when I'm gone?
Do you teach me while I'm here?
Just as soon as I belong
Then it's time I disappear

TeaEarlGreyHot
Your Maya
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Age: 30
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Definitely cultish, if that's the reason.
_________________
Do you bury me when I'm gone?
Do you teach me while I'm here?
Just as soon as I belong
Then it's time I disappear