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androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3076
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 Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Neurotypicals tell me to shut up so I can hold down a job. |
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Woofer123
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 17, 2012
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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OKAY- But this is exactly what the Nazis wanted.
Everyone has a right to exist and to reproduce. You can't take away that right from them.... |
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Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Pandora_Box wrote: | | I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human. |
I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Pandora_Box wrote: | | I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human. |
I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts. |
We don't, just that if we want to see where our patterns of cruelty come from and come up with ways to make those evils obsolete we'll get a lot farther in solving many of society's problems. It means that we need to be able to look at this stuff, dissect it, and understand it for what it is without flinching. The types of corrections we need aren't things we can legislate or mandate in any top-down manner. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Pandora_Box wrote: | | I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human. |
I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts. |
We don't, just that if we want to see where our patterns of cruelty come from and come up with ways to make those evils obsolete we'll get a lot farther in solving many of society's problems. It means that we need to be able to look at this stuff, dissect it, and understand it for what it is without flinching. The types of corrections we need aren't things we can legislate or mandate in any top-down manner. |
I can't disagree with that, and the only reason I brought up anything about legal policies would be, I would disagree with any attempts the government made to eliminate the 'defective' if such a thing were to take place....not that we need to enforce laws to try and change peoples mindset about things it is better to educate people. sorry if I misread anything.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| People who commit rape child molestation and infanticide should be eliminated. |
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Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Pandora_Box wrote: | | I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human. |
I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts. |
Human is no different from animal. We're still very much in control by our biological urges. To reproduce, to pass on our genes, the way we find a mater, the way we select mates, the way we think, etc. People like to think we are not ruled by our instincts, but that is so wrong. The reason why we're attracted to fast food goes back to our the way of our life. Sugar didn't exist as naturally as it does today, fats were always hard to come by, etc. High caloric diets are so appealing because it goes back ot our biological instincts.
We're all animals.
Human is a species just like Lion and Gorilla is a species.
We're all animals. And we all still live by the very rules of the natural world. We just like to dellude oursleves into thinking we're better than other species. But one day the natural system will after shock and then we'll live with the consequences.
We need to stop thinking in the terms that we do not live the natural ecosystem. We need to live a cohabitation of human society and the natural laws of the world. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Pandora_Box wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | Pandora_Box wrote: | | I'm going to be a little bit of the devil's advocate here. But look at any natural society. Mother apes, and other mammal mothers leave their child behind if they sense there is something wrong with the baby. Technically the same could have been said for those whom were defective in a human society. We're all still animals and still abide by the natural systems and rules. Other animals abandoned their defective children to ensure the survival of their own species and the survival of stronger genes. We only made the natural system wrong morally because we're human. |
I guess we have to decide if we want to be humans or animals than....also in those situations in nature, sometimes there are other factors involved such as maybe putting a baby who will only suffer out of it's misery, or having an inability to care for it. But thing is that's animals humans seem to typically veiw themselves as higher beings than animals so why do we want to throw human nature out the window and resort to basic animal instincts. |
Human is no different from animal. We're still very much in control by our biological urges. To reproduce, to pass on our genes, the way we find a mater, the way we select mates, the way we think, etc. People like to think we are not ruled by our instincts, but that is so wrong. The reason why we're attracted to fast food goes back to our the way of our life. Sugar didn't exist as naturally as it does today, fats were always hard to come by, etc. High caloric diets are so appealing because it goes back ot our biological instincts.
I am not intrested in having offspring and I hate fast food so surely that does not apply to all people...and I know instincts and biological urges play a role in behavior, but I guess that's it then and we should legalize murder and such since we're no different then animals and should not be held to human standards.
We're all animals.
Human is a species just like Lion and Gorilla is a species.
We're all animals. And we all still live by the very rules of the natural world. We just like to dellude oursleves into thinking we're better than other species. But one day the natural system will after shock and then we'll live with the consequences.
We need to stop thinking in the terms that we do not live the natural ecosystem. We need to live a cohabitation of human society and the natural laws of the world. |
I agree that humans certainly are a type of animal, but what is the point of even having societies or creating technology if everyone wants to run on animal instinct alone. The natural laws of the world do not involve rounding up the humans perceived to be defective and killing them off.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
I agree that humans certainly are a type of animal, but what is the point of even having societies or creating technology if everyone wants to run on animal instinct alone. The natural laws of the world do not involve rounding up the humans perceived to be defective and killing them off. |
Certainly do not round up the humans and kill all the defective ones. But I also think it's taking up a lot of resources trying to help those who cannot be helped. I think it's a waste of resources. I also think that if a baby is born with a heart problem, that we should not put a baby through surgery for a new heart. I think we should allow the child to die. I know it seems harsh, but it seems more logical.
I did also express cohabitation of certain laws of nature alongside human values and laws. I also nowhere stated to legalize murder, I just simply stated that we should stop wasting our resources on certain things. Like I do not believe in aid being sent to Africa. In a natural world, a population gets overpopulated, they starve or disease spreads, and either they die off and no longer exist. Or they die off and the population is restored.
We need to stop overusing antibiotics as well. It's used in our aggro factory farming business in cow feed and other animal feed. We use to much in our hospitals. We try so hard to cure disease that we seem to have completely lost the idea of managing diseases. I think management is a lot better than cure. Did you know sharks rarely get sick or infected by diseases because of the way their skin is patterned? If we learned this kind of information beforehand then we could do what we could to manage diseases.
If only we were a little smarter in managing and not seemingly want to cure every possible thing we could in the world. I am not saying open season on humanity nor am I encouraging genocide.
However, I am saying we need to live side by side with the ecosystem not against. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Pandora_Box wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
I agree that humans certainly are a type of animal, but what is the point of even having societies or creating technology if everyone wants to run on animal instinct alone. The natural laws of the world do not involve rounding up the humans perceived to be defective and killing them off. |
Certainly do not round up the humans and kill all the defective ones. But I also think it's taking up a lot of resources trying to help those who cannot be helped. I think it's a waste of resources. I also think that if a baby is born with a heart problem, that we should not put a baby through surgery for a new heart. I think we should allow the child to die. I know it seems harsh, but it seems more logical.
If there's a heart available for use how is that more logical? why throw away a perfectly good heart if someone could use it.
I did also express cohabitation of certain laws of nature alongside human values and laws. I also nowhere stated to legalize murder, I just simply stated that we should stop wasting our resources on certain things. Like I do not believe in aid being sent to Africa. In a natural world, a population gets overpopulated, they starve or disease spreads, and either they die off and no longer exist. Or they die off and the population is restored.
I'd agree with not sending aid to africa more or less, I mean I don't think its a terrible thing to do and have no problems with charities that do so......but the government should focus on the needs of the people here before trying to fix everyone elses problems or contribute to the problems depending on perspective.
We need to stop overusing antibiotics as well. It's used in our aggro factory farming business in cow feed and other animal feed. We use to much in our hospitals. We try so hard to cure disease that we seem to have completely lost the idea of managing diseases. I think management is a lot better than cure. Did you know sharks rarely get sick or infected by diseases because of the way their skin is patterned? If we learned this kind of information beforehand then we could do what we could to manage diseases.
maybe
If only we were a little smarter in managing and not seemingly want to cure every possible thing we could in the world. I am not saying open season on humanity nor am I encouraging genocide.
However, I am saying we need to live side by side with the ecosystem not against. |
And I agree with this though I am not sure I have the same idea of what living side by side with the ecosystem looks like.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Pandora_Box
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Age: 25
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
If there's a heart available for use how is that more logical? why throw away a perfectly good heart if someone could use it.
And I agree with this though I am not sure I have the same idea of what living side by side with the ecosystem looks like. |
Why do we want a newborn babey with the possibility of giving a heart defect to their offspring? When reproducing off spring, we want to pass on the stronger of genes. All species do this. All species want to pass on the best genes. The reason for so many disease and so many people with these genes is the fact that we save those kinds of babies. And what if those babies given a new heart continue for the rest of their life to have different heart problems, etc? It more sound to allow the natural course take it's toll.
I am in the process of majoring in environmental conservation and natural resources. I want to create not just green technology, but sustainable technology. Technology that abides by the laws of nature. I want to have a world less dependent on coal and less dependent on so many drugs, etc. To me that is cohabitation. Not just saying "How we can fix a problem", but "Why is this problem occuring" and not just creating a new gadget or a new drug because that only fixes the short term. But something that is created in the process of long term thought.
We need to stop thinking short term and start making decisions for the long term. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: |
We don't, just that if we want to see where our patterns of cruelty come from and come up with ways to make those evils obsolete we'll get a lot farther in solving many of society's problems. It means that we need to be able to look at this stuff, dissect it, and understand it for what it is without flinching. The types of corrections we need aren't things we can legislate or mandate in any top-down manner. |
I can't disagree with that, and the only reason I brought up anything about legal policies would be, I would disagree with any attempts the government made to eliminate the 'defective' if such a thing were to take place....not that we need to enforce laws to try and change peoples mindset about things it is better to educate people. sorry if I misread anything. |
In the case of whole societal collapse it would be happening because the government and support networks for health and assisted living were but at that given point cease to be. IMHO it wouldn't be an organized thing, it would be like the middle ages or back - something that just sort of spontaneously happened on a case by case basis. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: |
We don't, just that if we want to see where our patterns of cruelty come from and come up with ways to make those evils obsolete we'll get a lot farther in solving many of society's problems. It means that we need to be able to look at this stuff, dissect it, and understand it for what it is without flinching. The types of corrections we need aren't things we can legislate or mandate in any top-down manner. |
I can't disagree with that, and the only reason I brought up anything about legal policies would be, I would disagree with any attempts the government made to eliminate the 'defective' if such a thing were to take place....not that we need to enforce laws to try and change peoples mindset about things it is better to educate people. sorry if I misread anything. |
In the case of whole societal collapse it would be happening because the government and support networks for health and assisted living were but at that given point cease to be. IMHO it wouldn't be an organized thing, it would be like the middle ages or back - something that just sort of spontaneously happened on a case by case basis. |
I am aware of that, I guess I am not quite sure what exact point you're making.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
I am aware of that, I guess I am not quite sure what exact point you're making. |
Just that. The more of a burden we make of ourselves or the more we push on society or make demands without giving back the more vulnerable a position we put ourselves in. |
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