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vermontsavant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@aghogday.your right treatment programs may use some forms of corporal punishment or aversion therapy with a special court order.as to whether or not that makes it right i dont know.some children are very violent.but either way its a sad situation
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vermontsavant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CosTransform wrote:
@vermontsavant, Maybe the environment in that place caused the children to become outraged?
i agree and disagree.most kids come to these programs already violent.but the institutions perpeptiuate the cycle of violence.also what should staff do with someone who wont stop hurting themselves and other.i do agree that those tactics dont treat but just continue the cycle of abuse.sorry about the double posting,my phone was acting up.who know maybe my blackberry needs shock therapy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vermontsavant wrote:
@aghogday.your right treatment programs may use some forms of corporal punishment or aversion therapy with a special court order.as to whether or not that makes it right i dont know.some children are very violent.but either way its a sad situation


I don't think using tecqniques that could cause psychological or physical damage is the right way to handle it. Are parents allowed to abuse their kids if they can't figure out how to raise them? don't think so. So why should a institution for kids with developmental disorders or whatever it is use abuse? I think there are ways besides force feeding of hot peppers, electrical shocks and crap like that to calm a child if they lose control of symptoms and such.

Also maybe they should look into if these kids are violent in general or if being treated like crap causes them to act violent.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vermontsavant wrote:
CosTransform wrote:
@vermontsavant, Maybe the environment in that place caused the children to become outraged?
i agree and disagree.most kids come to these programs already violent.but the institutions perpeptiuate the cycle of violence.also what should staff do with someone who wont stop hurting themselves and other.i do agree that those tactics dont treat but just continue the cycle of abuse.sorry about the double posting,my phone was acting up.who know maybe my blackberry needs shock therapy


Well they could restrain the child in a way that does not hurt them or if it was really that exreme and they really could not figure out anything else don't they have sedatives? I mean I don't condone giving a kid drugs every time the act out.........but if it was an extreme situation that would probably work better than say restraining the kid to feed him hot peppers. I mean what the hell does that do? then the childs having a meltdown and has also endure unpleasent pain in their mouth and throat from the hot peppers how does that stop them from hurting them self?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aghogday wrote:


People have been attempting to get the JRC closed down for decades now.

However, until the abuses of the regulations that allow the aversive shock therapy in behavioral modification techniques, were found, and have now resulted in the restriction of the therapy in new patients, the Center had a compelling enough argument to defend the therapy, as justified, for the state to allow the continuance of the use of the therapy.

This an outline, provided by the organization, of the state laws/regulations in Massachusetts that have allowed the organization to justify their use of the aversive shock therapy, for decades now.

And what I am saying is it disgusts and angers me that they are allowed to continue using these harmful, cruel teqniques on the already existing patients. Them being used to abuse does not make it ok to allow it to continue.

Quote:
The aversives employed at JRC are safe, effective, and professionally approved by a Peer Review Committee and Human Rights Committee under procedures outlined by the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation (“MA DMR”). See 115 CMR 5.14. They are used pursuant to regulations of the MA DMR and the Massachusetts Department of Early Education and Care (“MA EEC”). JRC does not use aversive techniques until a Massachusetts Probate Court approves their use on an individual basis. JRC follows the MA DMR regulations requiring these treatment techniques to be used in a safe, well-documented manner. 115 CMR 5.14. JRC creates for each student a written behavior modification plan detailing the treatment’s rationale, duration, conditions, goals, and a detailed monitoring plan. 115 CMR 5.14(4)(c). A parent must sign a detailed aversive therapy consent form before JRC will incorporate such techniques in a student’s treatment plan and the aversive treatment is included and made part of the student’s Individualized Education Plan or Individualized Service Plan.


The most commonly used “aversive” procedure at JRC is an electrical stimulation device[1] manufactured by JRC called the Graduated Electronic Decelerator (“GED”). The GED unit consists of a transmitter operated by a JRC staff member and a receiver and stimulator worn by the student. The receiver delivers a low-level surface application of electrical current to a small area of the student’s skin upon command from the transmitter, as part of a designed behavioral treatment. There are no harmful side effects and minor side effects may consist of reddening of the skin and, on rare occasions, the appearance of a small blister, both of which are temporary. For many individuals, the GED is required only during the first few months of treatment, and is no longer necessary, or is necessary to a far lesser and diminishing degree, after that period. The students receive only one application per week on average. The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts has affirmed a Probate Court order authorizing the use of the GED at JRC as an appropriate intervention. See Guardianship of Brandon Sanchez, 424 Mass. 482 (1997); see also JRC v. DMR, 424 Mass. 430 (1997). Over one hundred peer-reviewed articles have been published in the professional literature supporting the safety and effectiveness of skin-shock and eight articles deal with the specific device (“SIBIS”) which is the forerunner of JRC’s GED device.


And this is their argument, that has justified the treatment as a last resort method of behavioral therapy, for the children in their treatment program that have been turned away from other programs.

Nowhere in there does it say what the purpose of this is or if it helps anything and based on that description....why does the child have to endure physical discomfort? causing the child to feel pain for behavior they are not in control of in an attempt to punish the behavior out of them hardly seems the way to go about it. I doubt the mentally retarded children who receive this treatment even understand what the purpose is..........to them its probably 'I don't understand why these people are causing me pain.'


Quote:
JRC often acts as a treatment of last resort for children and adults with severe behavior disorders who have been resistant to all forms of drugs and other psychiatric treatment and for whom there is no other placement that can educate them and keep them safe. These students engage in behaviors such as head-banging, eye-gouging, and biting off body parts.

JRC’s policy is to use a highly consistent application of behavior modification treatment and minimal or no psychotropic medication. JRC offers intensive behavioral treatment based on peer-reviewed and accepted methods of behavioral psychology, which has been extremely effective and life-saving for students who could not be effectively treated with psychotropic medication or psychotherapy. JRC’s treatment procedures are so effective that they rapidly reduce to a zero or near zero level the major problem behaviors of students with the most difficult-to-treat behavior disorders in the country.


Again, how does causing physical discomfort in the patients in an attempt to punish the symptoms out of them solve anything? Also treating non-behavioral problems as behavioral problems is likely to cause more problems. I am curious how many kids make it out of this center and how much better do they function after having undergone this 'therapy.' I wonder how many cases of PTSD there are.

There is another side of the issue, and that is what happens to these children if the JRC can no longer use the treatment that they justify as effective for these last resort cases, and turns them away as the other facilities have done.

Picture a young adult biting their body parts off, homeless on the streets; in a corrections facility that has no idea how to deal with them; or in a state institution, if one can be found for them, heavily sedated for life.

It's a harsh potential, that has likely kept the JRC open for the last several decades. There don't appear to be many good answers for some of these patients, outside of the JRC, either.

Institutional abuse can happen in any institutional environment, and the potential increases as the level of difficulties with patients increase.

That's no justification of the abuse, but it is a reality of the human condition, both for the patient and for the individuals providing treatment, that overstep the boundries established for behavioral therapies. As, has been evidenced in the past, at the JRC, and in many other institutions.

Well it would seem JRC does not know how to deal with them either.......they seem more concerned with tormenting the patients and justifying it as the only way. Why is the abuse nessisary is what I am wondering......in another thread I mentioned other ways they could make the patient stop hurting them self. That don't involve hurting the patient to make them stop hurting them self which does not even make sense. Also since when is mental retardation or Autism for that matter a behavioral problem.....I don't think behavioral therapy is appropriate for issues that aren't behavioral

I don't like any of the potential scenarios. They are all horrifying. It is a large part of the reason, why I have tried to provide evidence for why continuing research into causes, prevention, effective therapies, and the remote possibility for a cure, is so important for the children that have these type of debilitating behavioral problems associated with some forms of Autism.


Effective therapies are a great idea, but causing physical discomfort in a patient to try and teach them a lesson......is not one of them.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Judge Rotenberg centre is nothing more than a manifestion of the belief that causing torture to make someone normal is somehow acceptable. It's inefficient, cruel and weak, a manifestion of brutality that saps funds away from more worthy programs.
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aghogday
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweetleaf wrote:
aghogday wrote:


People have been attempting to get the JRC closed down for decades now.

However, until the abuses of the regulations that allow the aversive shock therapy in behavioral modification techniques, were found, and have now resulted in the restriction of the therapy in new patients, the Center had a compelling enough argument to defend the therapy, as justified, for the state to allow the continuance of the use of the therapy.

This an outline, provided by the organization, of the state laws/regulations in Massachusetts that have allowed the organization to justify their use of the aversive shock therapy, for decades now.

And what I am saying is it disgusts and angers me that they are allowed to continue using these harmful, cruel teqniques on the already existing patients. Them being used to abuse does not make it ok to allow it to continue.

Quote:
The aversives employed at JRC are safe, effective, and professionally approved by a Peer Review Committee and Human Rights Committee under procedures outlined by the Massachusetts Department of Mental Retardation (“MA DMR”). See 115 CMR 5.14. They are used pursuant to regulations of the MA DMR and the Massachusetts Department of Early Education and Care (“MA EEC”). JRC does not use aversive techniques until a Massachusetts Probate Court approves their use on an individual basis. JRC follows the MA DMR regulations requiring these treatment techniques to be used in a safe, well-documented manner. 115 CMR 5.14. JRC creates for each student a written behavior modification plan detailing the treatment’s rationale, duration, conditions, goals, and a detailed monitoring plan. 115 CMR 5.14(4)(c). A parent must sign a detailed aversive therapy consent form before JRC will incorporate such techniques in a student’s treatment plan and the aversive treatment is included and made part of the student’s Individualized Education Plan or Individualized Service Plan.


The most commonly used “aversive” procedure at JRC is an electrical stimulation device[1] manufactured by JRC called the Graduated Electronic Decelerator (“GED”). The GED unit consists of a transmitter operated by a JRC staff member and a receiver and stimulator worn by the student. The receiver delivers a low-level surface application of electrical current to a small area of the student’s skin upon command from the transmitter, as part of a designed behavioral treatment. There are no harmful side effects and minor side effects may consist of reddening of the skin and, on rare occasions, the appearance of a small blister, both of which are temporary. For many individuals, the GED is required only during the first few months of treatment, and is no longer necessary, or is necessary to a far lesser and diminishing degree, after that period. The students receive only one application per week on average. The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts has affirmed a Probate Court order authorizing the use of the GED at JRC as an appropriate intervention. See Guardianship of Brandon Sanchez, 424 Mass. 482 (1997); see also JRC v. DMR, 424 Mass. 430 (1997). Over one hundred peer-reviewed articles have been published in the professional literature supporting the safety and effectiveness of skin-shock and eight articles deal with the specific device (“SIBIS”) which is the forerunner of JRC’s GED device.


And this is their argument, that has justified the treatment as a last resort method of behavioral therapy, for the children in their treatment program that have been turned away from other programs.

Nowhere in there does it say what the purpose of this is or if it helps anything and based on that description....why does the child have to endure physical discomfort? causing the child to feel pain for behavior they are not in control of in an attempt to punish the behavior out of them hardly seems the way to go about it. I doubt the mentally retarded children who receive this treatment even understand what the purpose is..........to them its probably 'I don't understand why these people are causing me pain.'


Quote:
JRC often acts as a treatment of last resort for children and adults with severe behavior disorders who have been resistant to all forms of drugs and other psychiatric treatment and for whom there is no other placement that can educate them and keep them safe. These students engage in behaviors such as head-banging, eye-gouging, and biting off body parts.

JRC’s policy is to use a highly consistent application of behavior modification treatment and minimal or no psychotropic medication. JRC offers intensive behavioral treatment based on peer-reviewed and accepted methods of behavioral psychology, which has been extremely effective and life-saving for students who could not be effectively treated with psychotropic medication or psychotherapy. JRC’s treatment procedures are so effective that they rapidly reduce to a zero or near zero level the major problem behaviors of students with the most difficult-to-treat behavior disorders in the country.


Again, how does causing physical discomfort in the patients in an attempt to punish the symptoms out of them solve anything? Also treating non-behavioral problems as behavioral problems is likely to cause more problems. I am curious how many kids make it out of this center and how much better do they function after having undergone this 'therapy.' I wonder how many cases of PTSD there are.

There is another side of the issue, and that is what happens to these children if the JRC can no longer use the treatment that they justify as effective for these last resort cases, and turns them away as the other facilities have done.

Picture a young adult biting their body parts off, homeless on the streets; in a corrections facility that has no idea how to deal with them; or in a state institution, if one can be found for them, heavily sedated for life.

It's a harsh potential, that has likely kept the JRC open for the last several decades. There don't appear to be many good answers for some of these patients, outside of the JRC, either.

Institutional abuse can happen in any institutional environment, and the potential increases as the level of difficulties with patients increase.

That's no justification of the abuse, but it is a reality of the human condition, both for the patient and for the individuals providing treatment, that overstep the boundries established for behavioral therapies. As, has been evidenced in the past, at the JRC, and in many other institutions.

Well it would seem JRC does not know how to deal with them either.......they seem more concerned with tormenting the patients and justifying it as the only way. Why is the abuse nessisary is what I am wondering......in another thread I mentioned other ways they could make the patient stop hurting them self. That don't involve hurting the patient to make them stop hurting them self which does not even make sense. Also since when is mental retardation or Autism for that matter a behavioral problem.....I don't think behavioral therapy is appropriate for issues that aren't behavioral

I don't like any of the potential scenarios. They are all horrifying. It is a large part of the reason, why I have tried to provide evidence for why continuing research into causes, prevention, effective therapies, and the remote possibility for a cure, is so important for the children that have these type of debilitating behavioral problems associated with some forms of Autism.


Effective therapies are a great idea, but causing physical discomfort in a patient to try and teach them a lesson......is not one of them.


Just trying to provide an answer to your question as to why this type of treatment has continued for decades. I don't condone it a good solution, however it is the only solution that the state of massachussetts, their legal experts, human rights specialists, and court appointed authority could find for this minority of children that had these severe behavioral problems.

Only about 80 children in the country, have been determined to have behavioral problems bad enough to warrant this type of therapy. They are not all autistic children or young adults. I think you mentioned restraining them from biting their body parts off. This is obviously the first step anyone would do, if they found their children trying to bite their fingers off, etc. However it is not a permanent solution. The only way better solutions are going to be found is through further research.

Putting them out on the streets, is the worse possible solution. I certainly hope they will find ones better than that for the children and young adults in question.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aghogday wrote:

Only about 80 children in the country, have been determined to have behavioral problems bad enough to warrant this type of therapy. They are not all autistic children or young adults. I think you mentioned restraining them from biting their body parts off. This is obviously the first step anyone would do, if they found their children trying to bite their fingers off, etc. However it is not a permanent solution. The only way better solutions are going to be found is through further research.

Putting them out on the streets, is the worse possible solution. I certainly hope they will find ones better than that for the children and young adults in question.
I am sorry aghogday but I find your analysis to be wrong. Only 80 children or less are present in JRC at any one time. That doesn't mean that this is somehow a nationwide plan that selectively picks the 80 most self-injurous. No, it picks up those who it considers needs treatment, and the total number it would accept would likely be larger that eighty if given the chance.

The fact remains that numbers are completely pointless. The JRC has killed multiple people with its treatment. I know it well. It is a complete disgrace, killing the vulnerable in the name of progress.

There is no point trying to make a dramatic spin on this aghogday. It is unlikely that such children would be somehow thrown on to the streets. This is just plain black-and-white thinking. I don't doubt that they will probably be put in another institute where they can be helped.

Trying to defend this multiple manslaughter on grounds of research just sounds plain selfish Aghogday. Why do you insist on defending the institution via such subtle ways?
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vermontsavant
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

massachusetts has many programs that are available to those who need them free of charge.i dont know what people have learned on the inernet but i did 6 and 1\2 years in the custody of the dept of mental hygiene so who would know best.no one would be out in the cold if JRC were shut down
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why Aghogday insists on defending JRC if this is the case by constantly downplaying the numbers or exaggerating the extremeness of autism in reality by appealing to the extremes.
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aghogday
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProfumoAffair wrote:
aghogday wrote:

Only about 80 children in the country, have been determined to have behavioral problems bad enough to warrant this type of therapy. They are not all autistic children or young adults. I think you mentioned restraining them from biting their body parts off. This is obviously the first step anyone would do, if they found their children trying to bite their fingers off, etc. However it is not a permanent solution. The only way better solutions are going to be found is through further research.

Putting them out on the streets, is the worse possible solution. I certainly hope they will find ones better than that for the children and young adults in question.
I am sorry aghogday but I find your analysis to be wrong. Only 80 children or less are present in JRC at any one time. That doesn't mean that this is somehow a nationwide plan that selectively picks the 80 most self-injurous. No, it picks up those who it considers needs treatment, and the total number it would accept would likely be larger that eighty if given the chance.

The fact remains that numbers are completely pointless. The JRC has killed multiple people with its treatment. I know it well. It is a complete disgrace, killing the vulnerable in the name of progress.

There is no point trying to make a dramatic spin on this aghogday. It is unlikely that such children would be somehow thrown on to the streets. This is just plain black-and-white thinking. I don't doubt that they will probably be put in another institute where they can be helped.

Trying to defend this multiple manslaughter on grounds of research just sounds plain selfish Aghogday. Why do you insist on defending the institution via such subtle ways?


The court determines and approves if each child can receive the therapy. This is the only facility that provides the therapy, so these are the only children in the country that are determined to have self injurious behaviors that are serious enough were the benefits of the therapy exceed the costs of the therapy.

As I've stated many times I don't condone the abuses of the therapy, I am just reporting the facts as they exist.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/murders_of_massachusetts_menta.html

Quote:
There is a serious shortage of public mental health resources for the mentally ill, in Massachussetts because of recent severe cut backs in funding. At this point in time there is no guarantee that these adults or children will be placed in alternative care facilities, in the state of Massachussetts, or if space will even be available for them in alternative facilities. Some of them came from correctional facilities; it is possible they could eventually end up, back in correctional facilities.

Public in-patient acute care treatment facilities don't even exist in western Massachusetts anymore. The last public hospital with an acute care mental health unit closed in 1990 in Northampton, says David Matteodo, executive director of the Massachusetts Association of Behavioral Health Systems. Now, patients needing immediate mental health care must rely on private hospitals in western Massachusetts, he says.

Rising costs and declining reimbursement rates paid to outpatient facilities have also forced the dismantling of many mental health clinics in the state's westernmost region, adds Dr. Steven Winn, a psychologist and vice president at Behavioral Health Network. That dwindling number of clinics along with a shortage of medical staff, often means patients must wait up to six months before they can seek treatment, he adds.

“The whole state is in a crisis,” Winn says.

Maneuvering the complex maze of mental health care issues can be confounding for even the most stable individual but for those with mental issues, the trail often is rift with pitfalls, dead ends, and often frustration, advocates say.
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aghogday
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vermontsavant wrote:
massachusetts has many programs that are available to those who need them free of charge.i dont know what people have learned on the inernet but i did 6 and 1\2 years in the custody of the dept of mental hygiene so who would know best.no one would be out in the cold if JRC were shut down


Per the article I presented in my last post, these are recent developments in cutbacks. There are definitely homeless individuals and people in correctional facilities in Massachussetts, as well as the rest of the country, because they are not receiving the mental health care that they need, because of cutbacks in services.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
massachusetts has many programs that are available to those who need them free of charge.i dont know what people have learned on the inernet but i did 6 and 1\2 years in the custody of the dept of mental hygiene so who would know best.no one would be out in the cold if JRC were shut down


Per the article I presented in my last post, these are recent developments in cutbacks. There are definitely homeless individuals and people in correctional facilities in Massachussetts, as well as the rest of the country, because they are not receiving the mental health care that they need, because of cutbacks in services.
homelessness is still better than the JRC.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProfumoAffair wrote:
I don't see why Aghogday insists on defending JRC if this is the case by constantly downplaying the numbers or exaggerating the extremeness of autism in reality by appealing to the extremes.


Again, I am not defending the abuses at the JRC, and have presented facts, that are sourced. My concern is for the welfare of the children and adults in the program, and their accessibility to care in the future, if the Center closes down.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aspie48 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
massachusetts has many programs that are available to those who need them free of charge.i dont know what people have learned on the inernet but i did 6 and 1\2 years in the custody of the dept of mental hygiene so who would know best.no one would be out in the cold if JRC were shut down


Per the article I presented in my last post, these are recent developments in cutbacks. There are definitely homeless individuals and people in correctional facilities in Massachussetts, as well as the rest of the country, because they are not receiving the mental health care that they need, because of cutbacks in services.
homelessness is still better than the JRC.


Maybe for a healthy person, but not for one that is attempting to gouge their eyes out, or bite their body parts off. Who is going to prevent this behavior if they are homeless?

They require care in an supervised facility; there is no other way to save some of these individuals lives without supervised care. It doesn't have to be the JRC, but another facility must be made available for some of these individuals, if they are going to have a reasonable chance for survival.
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