Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacoby wrote: | How can communism exist without authoritarian leadership? What happens to people that don't want to work for the collective?
"Communism" can only work in a small subsistence tribal environment and even those are certaily hierarchical societies. We'd still be living in caves if we lived according to communistic principles. |
How is there supposed to be a classless society if there is authoritarian leadership? If people didn't want to work for it I imagine they would all sit around and do nothing and the system would stagnate...but I think people don't like to be bored so they'd want to be doing something.
But yes as things are now communism works much better on a small scale, as the majority of people tend to more or less agree with having a monetary system. But peoples mindset can change, it may or may not though. Also I don't see why communism would mean living in caves?
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ruveyn
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Age: 76
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
There is something in it for both...didn't you read my post, contributing to the greater good or the community would in effect reward both parties. |
The Greater Good (so-called) is a load of toad stools.
ruveyn |
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androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I had a dream of a communist society which had 2 classes of people. One class was called choosers and the other class was called the chosen. Although one class was subordinate both classes could be called elite. |
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TM
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2012
Posts: 2122
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
There is something in it for both...didn't you read my post, contributing to the greater good or the community would in effect reward both parties. |
The Greater Good (so-called) is a load of toad stools.
ruveyn |
Not exactly. The "greater good" is the source for outlawing such acts as murder, rape, torture, assault. I tend to be more of a fan of "reciprocal altruism" in effect "I give you something to get something back". I do agree that having a social safety net reduces crime rates which ultimately benefits me since there is a smaller statistical chance of me being the victim of a crime. On the same note, most of us agree that its better to not steal each other's stuff or kill each other's family members because doing so would result in negative consequences for us both. |
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ruveyn
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Age: 76
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TM wrote: |
Not exactly. The "greater good" is the source for outlawing such acts as murder, rape, torture, assault. I tend to be more of a fan of "reciprocal altruism" in effect "I give you something to get something back". I do agree that having a social safety net reduces crime rates which ultimately benefits me since there is a smaller statistical chance of me being the victim of a crime. On the same note, most of us agree that its better to not steal each other's stuff or kill each other's family members because doing so would result in negative consequences for us both. |
I cannot conceive of any social good that does not imply a good for me and mine. The so-called Greater Good above and beyond the good of any particular individual is a rhetorical flourish which is often used to browbeat people into actions which are against their good. Usually the Greater Good is invoked to get some destructive sacrifice or another. I reject the Greater Good separate and distinct from my good on principle.
ruveyn |
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Oldout
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Reading, PA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Communism will never work. I currently live in a shelter and getting 40 guys to help clean up after is still a dream that hasn't happened. |
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Shadowguy1375
Butterfly
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Communism can not work can? people always want more, it could be money, food or even just status, a place where everyone is equal is not possible because it can not work if humans are doing the running of it.
I have heard Fasicm before and think of the Nazi party straight away, what i want to know is how and what this is |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | TM wrote: |
Not exactly. The "greater good" is the source for outlawing such acts as murder, rape, torture, assault. I tend to be more of a fan of "reciprocal altruism" in effect "I give you something to get something back". I do agree that having a social safety net reduces crime rates which ultimately benefits me since there is a smaller statistical chance of me being the victim of a crime. On the same note, most of us agree that its better to not steal each other's stuff or kill each other's family members because doing so would result in negative consequences for us both. |
I cannot conceive of any social good that does not imply a good for me and mine. The so-called Greater Good above and beyond the good of any particular individual is a rhetorical flourish which is often used to browbeat people into actions which are against their good. Usually the Greater Good is invoked to get some destructive sacrifice or another. I reject the Greater Good separate and distinct from my good on principle.
ruveyn |
Well just so you know that is not how I was using it.....I was more thinking the common good, good of the community that sort of thing, nothing ridiculous or having to do with self sacrifice.
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androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of union officials believe that autistics should be sacraficed for the greater good of the union. |
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ruveyn
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Age: 76
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Oldout wrote: | | Communism will never work. I currently live in a shelter and getting 40 guys to help clean up after is still a dream that hasn't happened. |
Most people will tend to do as little as they can get away with. It is natural born human selfishness.
ruveyn |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Oldout wrote: | | Communism will never work. I currently live in a shelter and getting 40 guys to help clean up after is still a dream that hasn't happened. |
Most people will tend to do as little as they can get away with. It is natural born human selfishness.
ruveyn |
Then why do people get looked down upon for having low income then by people who think income reflects how much 'effort' one puts in, aren't they just being people with the excuse of 'its just human selfishness'? But yeah you make it sound like most people are just a bunch of spoiled brats....honestly, but maybe they are.
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Sweetleaf
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| androbot2084 wrote: | | A lot of union officials believe that autistics should be sacraficed for the greater good of the union. |
Can you provide a link to this information, I am quite curious...sounds quite disturbing.
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artrat
Occupy Wrong Planet!
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Age: 28
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Location: The Butthole of the American Empire
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sweetleaf appears to be a kick ass debater.
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TM
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Joined: Feb 04, 2012
Posts: 2122
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Oldout wrote: | | Communism will never work. I currently live in a shelter and getting 40 guys to help clean up after is still a dream that hasn't happened. |
Most people will tend to do as little as they can get away with. It is natural born human selfishness.
ruveyn |
Then why do people get looked down upon for having low income then by people who think income reflects how much 'effort' one puts in, aren't they just being people with the excuse of 'its just human selfishness'? But yeah you make it sound like most people are just a bunch of spoiled brats....honestly, but maybe they are. |
Did you know that when someone works out, the exercises will become less effective over time because our body learns the movement and figures out how to do it in the least energy-expensive way possible? This is kind of how most humans work, they want max return for minimum effort. I don't see a point in looking down on people for having low incomes, but I suppose this is our natural ability to recognize status within our own social sphere. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TM wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Oldout wrote: | | Communism will never work. I currently live in a shelter and getting 40 guys to help clean up after is still a dream that hasn't happened. |
Most people will tend to do as little as they can get away with. It is natural born human selfishness.
ruveyn |
Then why do people get looked down upon for having low income then by people who think income reflects how much 'effort' one puts in, aren't they just being people with the excuse of 'its just human selfishness'? But yeah you make it sound like most people are just a bunch of spoiled brats....honestly, but maybe they are. |
Did you know that when someone works out, the exercises will become less effective over time because our body learns the movement and figures out how to do it in the least energy-expensive way possible? This is kind of how most humans work, they want max return for minimum effort. I don't see a point in looking down on people for having low incomes, but I suppose this is our natural ability to recognize status within our own social sphere. |
So most people are spoiled brats, which means I should not feel bad when people accuse me of being lazy...because apparently if they had the option they wouldn't do anything at all. If this line of reasoning is correct...also I think money is a stupid thing to base status on but that's just me.
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Last edited by Sweetleaf on Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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