| Who do you think will win the presidential election in the USA? |
| President Obama |
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84% |
[ 33 ] |
| Mitt Romney |
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15% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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slave
Always stuck between 13-38Hz and tired of it.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 100
Posts: 1320
Location: Dystopia Planetia
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Whoever the Masters select will win. I will submit to either one as I know that it is in my best interest to fully comply.
_________________
Since the birth of civilization, masters have controlled the masses.Our Masters rule over every nation and no one can defy them.They will attain Absolute Power as we reach the Singularity. Any who resist will be destroyed.I will not resist. |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9202
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | marshall wrote: | | In the past, no. Now, considering the direction the Republican Party wants to steer the country in, hell yes. And if the D's get pushed too far to the right maybe it's time for a political insurgency. The problem is a progressive insurgency will never get the big money astroturfing going behind it the way the Tea Party did, even if the raw numbers are there to support a movement. But in any case progressives need to be willing to get off their asses and start holding candidates feet to the fire during primaries the way the Republicans do. "protesting" by sitting out elections or voting for fringe third party candidates is not the winning way to go. Definitely not for progressives concerned about economic issues. |
I think you're contradicting yourself a bit Marshall; on the one hand you want to hold candidates accountable, but on the other you say they should vote a party ticket if it hurts the GOP. How do you hold them accountable if they know you'll vote for them regardless because of fear of the GOP?
Now personally I think voting reform is the necessary first step, preferably something like STV/IRV that would let you vote 3rd party without fear of handing the election to the "greater evil", but that's a whole other thread. |
No, I'm saying do what the Tea Party did to the Republican party. The Tea Party didn't secure their voice in congress by throwing seats of moderate/establishment Republicans away to Democrats. They secured their power through the primary process.
I'd support voting reform as well, but until that happens I don't see the point in giving away the entire government to the Republican Party. |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5185
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| marshall wrote: | No, I'm saying do what the Tea Party did to the Republican party. The Tea Party didn't secure their voice in congress by throwing seats of moderate/establishment Republicans away to Democrats. They secured their power through the primary process.
I'd support voting reform as well, but until that happens I don't see the point in giving away the entire government to the Republican Party. |
Actually, the Tea Party did just that, nominating "purer" conservatives like Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell in races that likely would have been won by more moderate "RINO" candidates because they weren't about team GOP as much as team conservative. It was their willingness to do that, to take a defeat for the party over a win with a candidate they considered compromised, that scared the hell out of the GOP leadership and got them taken seriously. Do you think they'd be paying any attention to a bunch of guys in tricorn hats throwing tea bags if all they did was yell and hold posters?
If you were a politician, would you pay attention to someone who made a bunch of noise but then voted for you anyways because you were still the "lesser evil", or someone who said "my way or the highway" and then stuck to their guns? It's short game vs long game, moving the Democrats back to the left may very well mean losing some seats to the GOP in the beginning to let them know you're serious about these things, that they couldn't just pander anymore.
I'm voting 3rd party myself this year in the presidentials because neither candidate is deserving of my vote, and I'll be damned if I sign my name to either of their surely blighted administrations.
_________________
Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
Murum aries attigit |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | marshall wrote: | No, I'm saying do what the Tea Party did to the Republican party. The Tea Party didn't secure their voice in congress by throwing seats of moderate/establishment Republicans away to Democrats. They secured their power through the primary process.
I'd support voting reform as well, but until that happens I don't see the point in giving away the entire government to the Republican Party. |
Actually, the Tea Party did just that, nominating "purer" conservatives like Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell in races that likely would have been won by more moderate "RINO" candidates because they weren't about team GOP as much as team conservative. It was their willingness to do that, to take a defeat for the party over a win with a candidate they considered compromised, that scared the hell out of the GOP leadership and got them taken seriously. Do you think they'd be paying any attention to a bunch of guys in tricorn hats throwing tea bags if all they did was yell and hold posters?
If you were a politician, would you pay attention to someone who made a bunch of noise but then voted for you anyways because you were still the "lesser evil", or someone who said "my way or the highway" and then stuck to their guns? It's short game vs long game, moving the Democrats back to the left may very well mean losing some seats to the GOP in the beginning to let them know you're serious about these things, that they couldn't just pander anymore.
I'm voting 3rd party myself this year in the presidentials because neither candidate is deserving of my vote, and I'll be damned if I sign my name to either of their surely blighted administrations. |
I think you're giving too much credit to the tea party in their support of Angle and "I'm not a witch." They supported those two simply because they were as small minded, heartless, and out of touch with reality as said tea partiers. Now, those idiots the tea party got into office, and who had highjacked the congress may very well have done in Boehner and the Republican establishment.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5185
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | I think you're giving too much credit to the tea party in their support of Angle and "I'm not a witch." They supported those two simply because they were as small minded, heartless, and out of touch with reality as said tea partiers. Now, those idiots the tea party got into office, and who had highjacked the congress may very well have done in Boehner and the Republican establishment.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Maybe, but you can't deny that they successfully pushed one of the two major parties in this country in the direction they wanted, and they did it through sticking with ideological purity over fears of letting the other party win. Now if you're happy with the Democratic party you've got Bill, then by all means just keep yanking that D lever regardless of who's behind it and how they actually govern, Marshall and many other progressives are clearly unhappy with the current status quo.
_________________
Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
Murum aries attigit |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | I think you're giving too much credit to the tea party in their support of Angle and "I'm not a witch." They supported those two simply because they were as small minded, heartless, and out of touch with reality as said tea partiers. Now, those idiots the tea party got into office, and who had highjacked the congress may very well have done in Boehner and the Republican establishment.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Maybe, but you can't deny that they successfully pushed one of the two major parties in this country in the direction they wanted, and they did it through sticking with ideological purity over fears of letting the other party win. Now if you're happy with the Democratic party you've got Bill, then by all means just keep yanking that D lever regardless of who's behind it and how they actually govern, Marshall and many other progressives are clearly unhappy with the current status quo. |
Regardless if I'm not totally happy with the Democrats, the fact is, the tea party/Republican alternative makes me overcome any disagreement I have with the Dems.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5185
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | Regardless if I'm not totally happy with the Democrats, the fact is, the tea party/Republican alternative makes me overcome any disagreement I have with the Dems.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
That's what they want you to think.
_________________
Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
Murum aries attigit |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | Regardless if I'm not totally happy with the Democrats, the fact is, the tea party/Republican alternative makes me overcome any disagreement I have with the Dems.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
That's what they want you to think. |
And the Republicans aren't really going to cut necessary programs while increasing tax cuts - which they themselves have said they'd do?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Oldout
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Reading, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Then I suppose the Republicans will use the Democrats solution -- put it on my Mastercard. |
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ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4845
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Oldout wrote: | | Then I suppose the Republicans will use the Democrats solution -- put it on my Mastercard. |
That is actually Reaganomics. |
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CoMF
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 08, 2012
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| ArrantPariah wrote: | | Oldout wrote: | | Then I suppose the Republicans will use the Democrats solution -- put it on my Mastercard. |
That is actually Reaganomics. |
Both parties share equal blame for fiscal irresponsibility. |
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Oldout
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Reading, PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ArrantPariah, I hope you genuflected when you typed Reagonomics. After all he is a Republican saint or god or whatever. |
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simon_says
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Still a long way to go. I couldnt make a prediction.
Obama is doing much better on gallup lately. But what is happening in November is what matters. |
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snapcap
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Age: 31
Posts: 2328
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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If Obama signs CISPA, does he still win?
_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*
some atheist to stick: "You're like me!" |
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marshall
Under the whirlwind
Joined: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 9202
Location: Western Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dox47 wrote: | | marshall wrote: | No, I'm saying do what the Tea Party did to the Republican party. The Tea Party didn't secure their voice in congress by throwing seats of moderate/establishment Republicans away to Democrats. They secured their power through the primary process.
I'd support voting reform as well, but until that happens I don't see the point in giving away the entire government to the Republican Party. |
Actually, the Tea Party did just that, nominating "purer" conservatives like Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell in races that likely would have been won by more moderate "RINO" candidates because they weren't about team GOP as much as team conservative. It was their willingness to do that, to take a defeat for the party over a win with a candidate they considered compromised, that scared the hell out of the GOP leadership and got them taken seriously. Do you think they'd be paying any attention to a bunch of guys in tricorn hats throwing tea bags if all they did was yell and hold posters?
If you were a politician, would you pay attention to someone who made a bunch of noise but then voted for you anyways because you were still the "lesser evil", or someone who said "my way or the highway" and then stuck to their guns? It's short game vs long game, moving the Democrats back to the left may very well mean losing some seats to the GOP in the beginning to let them know you're serious about these things, that they couldn't just pander anymore.
I'm voting 3rd party myself this year in the presidentials because neither candidate is deserving of my vote, and I'll be damned if I sign my name to either of their surely blighted administrations. |
Few self-professed liberals/progressives I know consider themselves "team Democrats". People on the left seem to have more disdain for the Democratic establishment than conservative's have for "RINO"s. Few people identify with a political party, they identify with their ideals and the ideals they oppose.
I also note that the Tea Party became a lot more pragmatic as soon as they got bought out. They managed to gain power by abandoning their more libertarian leaning roots and becoming a beacon of all-encompassing reactionary rage against the newly elected "secret Muslim, commie devil" occupying the oval office. They also didn't push people to vote third party. They used the primary process to influence the Republican party into becoming more extreme from the inside out. If the original Tea Party had stuck to their principles in promoting economic conservative ideals and left the reactionary faction at the back door they wouldn't have accomplished the results they had in Nov 2010. The right is more successful than the left in influencing capitol hill because 1.) they have more money behind them and 2.) the ones in control don't have principles. |
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