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northern_light_girl
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 141
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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LeahG, thanks for explaining where you're coming from.
But I personally don't agree. I will explain my view as calmy as you have. To me, there isn't the same soul that somehow comes back in a few years. This is one child (one soul), the next would be a second, different one (soul). This one will not be born and it will not come back in other shapes, forms...It's not reincarnation. So this is the option to terminate this particular life.
If we carried babies on the outside -being able to see them grow, I wonder if we'd understand more organically, in a more connected way, what it is growing there. And maybe we'd wonder more if we had the right to terminate this growth for whatever reasons we can think of (some of them sound very valid but to me, they pale in comparison to a child).
The way I see it, for me it is reduced to inconvenience. Degrees can be finished later (I am not even talking about your particular case). Any job can be postponed or worked around. Especially if there's family to help around the house, a boyfriend, parents, extended family, daycare. It doesn't have to be sacrificing dreams. Where there's a will, there's a way...
Last edited by northern_light_girl on Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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northern_light_girl
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 29, 2008
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| nomnom_hamster wrote: |
And if the quality of life was living in a 0 bedroom apt with no car and the lowest income job available, coming home exhausted everynight from working a 10hr day wouldn't have mattered to it then maybe I shouldn't have.
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nonnom_hamster, I respect your point of view. But this is not about you now. Your are talking about your options...0 bedroom apt, no car, lowest income job, 10h day...Why would you make it sound as if any woman who has a child is condemned to live her entire life working a low income job and living in bad conditions? Obviously, if one finishes college after taking a 2 year break, gets married to a boyfriend and gets a good job in abot 5 years, neither she nor the baby nor the husband would live like that. Such hardship would be temporary. |
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LeahG
Hummingbird
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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That's more or less how we would be living, ironically. It suits us both fine now not having a car as we walk everywhere - we're both dedicated 'greenies' as they say - but with a child, that wouldn't work. When we do get a car we want it to be as eco-friendly as possible, and that means it would be expensive. We want to wait a few years and see how technology progresses; ethanol and other 'eco-friendly' oils are so damaging to the environment it's untrue. As for the apartment, well, it's tiny but we manage somehow. Again, we couldn't with a child as there simply isn't the room.
Finishing university after a two-year break wouldn't happen. One, because neither of us can take breaks from our courses, and two, because university costs money. A lot of money. When you combine the cost of that - which we barely cover - with the cost of having a baby to take care of (you can say money doesn't matter as much as you like, but the fact is it does. A lot.), then something would have to give, and that would be the study. Which would mean much lower-income jobs, potential government handouts... not something I want to do.
Also, I don't want my child in daycare or nursery. Perhaps for a year or so, but I want to bring my child up with the full love and support and attention it deserves. I know there's nothing wrong with nurseries, and I think a day or two a week could be beneficial if we find the right one, but I don't want to have to rely on that to raise my child all day every day so I can keep up with the bills. I want to enjoy her childhood.
There wouldn't be familial help either at present as we're studying a long way from both our families - over a day's travel, in fact, and expensive. Sure, they'd be on the other end of the phone, but not where we live. I grew up in a large family and with plenty of people around all the time, as did my partner, and that's exactly what I want for my baby. Right now, it wouldn't happen.
This simply isn't the time, and I know that, and I think this child knows that. You can't destroy a soul. This is simply something I have to go through to learn whatever lesson is here to be learnt (no protection gags, please) and to grow from it. I'll no doubt be able to use it in my job in a few years time, and although I can't see the reason for this now, there is a reason somewhere. There's a purpose behind everything, even if we can't see it right away. God knows what's right and what's meant to be.
Now, back to my real question, does anyone else have any experience or any idea of what they do etc? I'm so scared and it's getting closer to the day and I just don't know what to do with myself! I'm taking a lot of homoeopathics to calm me down, which are working to an extent, but it's still not enough.
<sigh>
Leah |
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Anemone
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 575
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LeahG wrote: | Now, back to my real question, does anyone else have any experience or any idea of what they do etc? I'm so scared and it's getting closer to the day and I just don't know what to do with myself! I'm taking a lot of homoeopathics to calm me down, which are working to an extent, but it's still not enough.
<sigh>
Leah |
I don't remember the procedure I had (I was 12) but I know that if it were me, I'd want to read everything I could. Our Bodies, Our Selves is probably a book I'd check out. They have good information on other women's health subjects, diagrams etc. Plus anything else I could find at the library. Who knows, maybe they even have videos, like the one of a woman giving birth they showed us in grade 9 health class.
Good luck! |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| northern_light_girl wrote: | LeahG, thanks for explaining where you're coming from.
But I personally don't agree. I will explain my view as calmy as you have. To me, there isn't the same soul that somehow comes back in a few years. This is one child (one soul), the next would be a second, different one (soul). This one will not be born and it will not come back in other shapes, forms...It's not reincarnation. So this is the option to terminate this particular life.
If we carried babies on the outside -being able to see them grow, I wonder if we'd understand more organically, in a more connected way, what it is growing there. And maybe we'd wonder more if we had the right to terminate this growth for whatever reasons we can think of (some of them sound very valid but to me, they pale in comparison to a child).
The way I see it, for me it is reduced to inconvenience. Degrees can be finished later (I am not even talking about your particular case). Any job can be postponed or worked around. Especially if there's family to help around the house, a boyfriend, parents, extended family, daycare. It doesn't have to be sacrificing dreams. Where there's a will, there's a way... |
What makes you so sure that the Sould enters the body upon conception nothern_light_girl? For no less than 1 month after conception the embryo has NO brain yet. So for example when its still a gastrula how can it possible have "want"?
The soul that would be entering this developing embryo surely will find another body to be born into. |
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nomnom_hamster
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 205
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| northern_light_girl wrote: | | nomnom_hamster wrote: |
And if the quality of life was living in a 0 bedroom apt with no car and the lowest income job available, coming home exhausted everynight from working a 10hr day wouldn't have mattered to it then maybe I shouldn't have.
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nonnom_hamster, I respect your point of view. But this is not about you now. Your are talking about your options...0 bedroom apt, no car, lowest income job, 10h day...Why would you make it sound as if any woman who has a child is condemned to live her entire life working a low income job and living in bad conditions? Obviously, if one finishes college after taking a 2 year break, gets married to a boyfriend and gets a good job in abot 5 years, neither she nor the baby nor the husband would live like that. Such hardship would be temporary. |
Kthx. You're about a year too late though.
And as always, there is more to it than that.
And if it was at conception, then that would mean that a newborn baby is actually 9mths old, a one year old is actually 1yr 9mths etc. Right? |
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LeahG
Hummingbird
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I know, they actually take birthdates as the date of conception in parts of China (at least, according to a Chinese friend of mine whose birthday is her conception day!).
I have my first exam tomorrow, with the scan and possible internal too...  |
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nomnom_hamster
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 205
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LeahG wrote: | As far as I know, they actually take birthdates as the date of conception in parts of China (at least, according to a Chinese friend of mine whose birthday is her conception day!).
I have my first exam tomorrow, with the scan and possible internal too... |
I thought that too.
Good luck with your exam! 
I'm sure You'll do fine. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 1301
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Hmn. ..
My viewpoint on what is right to do here is different from yours; this is just my perspective, but I don't understand how your mothering instinct is so strong that you feel compelled to destroy the fetus rather than give it a bountiful life with someone else.
I wish for you the best of health, safety, and peace in this very difficult time, regardless of our differences of opinion about your very personal choice. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 1301
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| nomnom_hamster wrote: |
And if it was at conception, then that would mean that a newborn baby is actually 9mths old, a one year old is actually 1yr 9mths etc. Right? |
I believe this is how Chinese birthdays are generally counted, traditionally. |
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Jainaday
in uncertain taste
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 1301
Location: in the They
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| northern_light_girl wrote: | LeahG, thanks for explaining where you're coming from.
But I personally don't agree. I will explain my view as calmy as you have. To me, there isn't the same soul that somehow comes back in a few years. This is one child (one soul), the next would be a second, different one (soul). This one will not be born and it will not come back in other shapes, forms...It's not reincarnation. So this is the option to terminate this particular life.
If we carried babies on the outside -being able to see them grow, I wonder if we'd understand more organically, in a more connected way, what it is growing there. And maybe we'd wonder more if we had the right to terminate this growth for whatever reasons we can think of (some of them sound very valid but to me, they pale in comparison to a child).
The way I see it, for me it is reduced to inconvenience. Degrees can be finished later (I am not even talking about your particular case). Any job can be postponed or worked around. Especially if there's family to help around the house, a boyfriend, parents, extended family, daycare. It doesn't have to be sacrificing dreams. Where there's a will, there's a way... |
I think this is crazy talk; enormous sacrifices must be made to do a decent job in raising a child, and this means that sometimes degrees will not be finished, dreams will be deferred and sometimes not fulfilled. That's not "inconvenience"--it's a change in the major direction of one's life. To say otherwise is wishful thinking.
Life is only so long.
On top of this, children do a lot better when they come to families that are relatively ready for them. |
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LeahG
Hummingbird
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I did it. This morning.
Physically, I feel fine. I'm exhausted though, I'm not sure whether that's from the enormous meltdown I had prior to the anaesthetic or the anaesthetic itself. I don't know if they'd have ever seen anything like that. Thank goodness I don't have to see them again, and thank goodness I warned them I have Aspergers and this could happen - I remember the nurse who was trying to calm me down explaining it to the anaesthetist that I have it and that'll be why I was having a meltdown, it made it much easier for them to deal with. Nevermind.
I feel kinda hollow. I don't know how I should feel. I just feel... nothing. But I'm incredibly relieved that I don't have to raise a child in circumstances that will put her at a disadvantage from the beginning. She'll be back in a few years when we're ready for her. |
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D1nk0
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LeahG wrote: | Well, I did it. This morning.
Physically, I feel fine. I'm exhausted though, I'm not sure whether that's from the enormous meltdown I had prior to the anaesthetic or the anaesthetic itself. I don't know if they'd have ever seen anything like that. Thank goodness I don't have to see them again, and thank goodness I warned them I have Aspergers and this could happen - I remember the nurse who was trying to calm me down explaining it to the anaesthetist that I have it and that'll be why I was having a meltdown, it made it much easier for them to deal with. Nevermind.
I feel kinda hollow. I don't know how I should feel. I just feel... nothing. But I'm incredibly relieved that I don't have to raise a child in circumstances that will put her at a disadvantage from the beginning. She'll be back in a few years when we're ready for her. |
How did you know the sex of the fetus? Dontcha wish sometimes that Humans laid eggs instead of getting pregnant and having to give birth to live young?   |
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LeahG
Hummingbird
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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That would be great. Though I was enjoying being pregnant, knowing something was growing inside me was kinda nice. Made me feel like I had a purpose and have a purpose. It was a nice taster!
And I didn't really know it was a girl, but I know, if that makes sense. Call it gut instinct. |
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 707
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I just read through the whole thread. Glad to hear that you got through ok, Leah; it sounds like you handled things quite well, all things considered. I'm glad that your partner was supportive.
For future reference, it sounds like you have pretty strong reactions to the hormones involved with pregnancy (that's basically what birth control pills are), and that may be part of why you felt so panicked and out-of-sorts. When you do decide to have kids, make sure that your partner and doctor know what to expect! |
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