Averick
*ZER0*
Joined: Mar 06, 2007
Posts: 2865
Location: My tower upon the crag. Yes, mwahahaha!
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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | MissConstrue wrote: |  Oh that's ashame I guess that wouldn't include you. |
I'm ubermensch. |
You know that nazis really adored Nietzsche, right?
And on top of it, he was a misogynist, and probably a closet homosexual.
Just thought i'd bring that to light. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: |
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1) Such an event would be abhorrent.
2) Do you not consider the emotions of the partner? You're like the liberal doctors and lawyers who don't want to disclose the fact that a daughter is pregnant at 13-17 to her parents. I don't see how such an act is acceptable.
3) It would be rude for the transsexual to not disclose his natural sexuality before entering into a relationship with an unsuspecting partner.
4) Read up a couple of posts. Eight posts exactly, if I counted right. I don't see how I am losing any argument being that my opinions have not changed even before such a topic was logged in. Also, in order to humor you a bit, some transsexuals do deserve to be in jail. Especially the ones who go about manipulating people.
5) I find it impossible to leave a person be who insists on being known.
6) In a society, no one is actually left alone.
7) I'm sure there are Americans that would love a pederasty culture. Should we accommodate them?
| Averick wrote: |
You know that nazis really adored Nietzsche, right?
And on top of it, he was a misogynist, and probably a closet homosexual.
Just thought i'd bring that to light. |
Thanks! I'm also aware of the fact that it was Nietzsche's anti-semitic sister who distorted much of his material to be acceptable to the belief of an Aryan ideal and works that inspired the Nazis. I'm also aware of the fact that Nietzsche disapproved of his sister's beliefs and husband.
What makes you think he was a homosexual? The fact that he didn't marry? In either case, how would being gay discredit him of anything? I like Queen. Freddy Mercury was a homosexual, yet I listen to his music. It doesn't make him a bad person, but it wouldn't convince me to support gay marriage. |
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Paperplate
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Same-sex marriages are legal where I live. Many homosexual people got married, even ppl known in the public eye. It makes no difference to society. What are you afraid of, giving gay people the right to get married?
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only dead fish go with the flow |
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 9915
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Paperplate wrote: | | Same-sex marriages are legal where I live. Many homosexual people got married, even ppl known in the public eye. It makes no difference to society. What are you afraid of, giving gay people the right to get married? |
Progress. 
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“Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.” |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| greenblue wrote: | | Paperplate wrote: | | Same-sex marriages are legal where I live. Many homosexual people got married, even ppl known in the public eye. It makes no difference to society. What are you afraid of, giving gay people the right to get married? |
Progress. |
No one is afraid of progressing. It has to do with values. There is no need in having homosexual marriages. The argument that heterosexuals don't value their marriage is not even worth mentioning (as I've heard before). |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | 1) Such an event would be abhorrent. |
This was said of a number of things, and the sky didn't come falling down.
| Quote: | | 2) Do you not consider the emotions of the partner? |
Most assuredly. That's the idea.
| Quote: | | 3) It would be rude for the transsexual to not disclose his natural sexuality before entering into a relationship with an unsuspecting partner. |
It would be rude for you to disclose it when his personal relationships are no business of yours, busybody.
| Quote: | | 4) Read up a couple of posts. Eight posts exactly, if I counted right. I don't see how I am losing any argument being that my opinions have not changed even before such a topic was logged in. |
That's quite a bit of a lie. In fact, we've strayed far from your original position, and now we have begun a lively discussion on whether it is ethical for transsexuals to keep their original gender secret from their marital partners. You never even made an effort to defend you original statements.
Besides, the changelessness of your position is a perfect measurement of the extent of your ignorance.
| Quote: | | 5) I find it impossible to leave a person be who insists on being known. |
That's the problem. People like you can't seem to prevent yourselves from being abusive and insensitive toward other people. Frankly, I think that some time behind bars would do you a world of good.
| Quote: | | 7) I'm sure there are Americans that would love a pederasty culture. Should we accommodate them? |
I am sure that there are Americans who don't like black people. Should we accomodate them? |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Griff wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | 1) Such an event would be abhorrent. |
This was said of a number of things, and the sky didn't come falling down.
| Quote: | | 2) Do you not consider the emotions of the partner? |
Most assuredly. That's the idea.
| Quote: | | 3) It would be rude for the transsexual to not disclose his natural sexuality before entering into a relationship with an unsuspecting partner. |
It would be rude for you to disclose it when his personal relationships are no business of yours, busybody.
| Quote: | | 4) Read up a couple of posts. Eight posts exactly, if I counted right. I don't see how I am losing any argument being that my opinions have not changed even before such a topic was logged in. |
That's quite a bit of a lie. In fact, we've strayed far from your original position, and now we have begun a lively discussion on whether it is ethical for transsexuals to keep their original gender secret from their marital partners. You never even made an effort to defend you original statements.
Besides, the changelessness of your position is a perfect measurement of the extent of your ignorance.
| Quote: | | 5) I find it impossible to leave a person be who insists on being known. |
That's the problem. People like you can't seem to prevent yourselves from being abusive and insensitive toward other people. Frankly, I think that some time behind bars would do you a world of good.
| Quote: | | 7) I'm sure there are Americans that would love a pederasty culture. Should we accommodate them? |
I am sure that there are Americans who don't like black people. Should we accomodate them? |
1) The person who would take up such a task should have his medical license remove, even for thinking about it.
2) If a man goes under surgery to appear as a female and fools his partner into believe that he IS a female, do you find this acceptable?
3) It is also the business of the partner to be made aware of such a thing.
4) Nah, I'm sure you believe everything Fred posts. It is not ignorant of me if I do not like or accept a person's lifestyle. Such an idea is in itself ignorant.
5) I've given some examples as to why I cannot just turn a blind eye. Another is the fact that I don't see it being acceptable to flaunt in society. Men who dress/want to be women. That is truly ridiculous. Enjoy it behind your doors, do not involve society, and do not expect everyone in society to appreciate your bravado.
6) I made a point about it before. In either way, the black man will not be able to change his color, thus he is unable to do anything about being black. The transgendered or transsexual is in full control of his actions, thus is liable to receive criticism. |
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 9915
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Men who dress/want to be women. That is truly ridiculous. |
Why?
| Quote: | | 2) If a man goes under surgery to appear as a female and fools his partner into believe that he IS a female, do you find this acceptable? |
No, I don't find if acceptable. Your point on this is.....
| Quote: | | The transgendered or transsexual is in full control of his actions, thus is liable to receive criticism. |
From who and why?
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“Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.” |
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MR_BOGAN
Mysterios Dirty Dancer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 2700
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | greenblue wrote: | | Paperplate wrote: | | Same-sex marriages are legal where I live. Many homosexual people got married, even ppl known in the public eye. It makes no difference to society. What are you afraid of, giving gay people the right to get married? |
Progress. |
No one is afraid of progressing. It has to do with values. There is no need in having homosexual marriages. The argument that heterosexuals don't value their marriage is not even worth mentioning (as I've heard before). |
 being a homosexual doesn't mean you have low values.
I think you have homosexual tendencies and are affraid to face up to them. I really don't get what the problem is.
It's not like it is going to start turning everybody gay, well unless you are a bit that way included oscuria.
If you want to marry a big black man that is your business, I don't have a problem with that.
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Last edited by MR_BOGAN on Sat May 03, 2008 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Descartes
Cogito Ergo Sum
Joined: Apr 09, 2008
Age: 21
Posts: 5998
Location: Arlington, Texas
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think I'll contribute some of my opinions to this thread 
On the same-sex marriage issue, I don't see why not. Canada and some parts of Europe allow it, and they're doing just fine. Also, I don't see marriage as a religious institution, since there's no law against two atheists getting married, and no one is required to have a religion-oriented marriage. As for the "sanctity of marriage" thing, I think marriage is screwed up enough as it is. People marrying in Las Vegas, couples getting a divorce within a year or two, and most celebrity marriages don't exactly sound "sanctified" to me.
Transgendered/sexual or transvestites shouldn't be an issue either. If it makes you uncomfortable, then don't associate with them. People have a right to express themselves. If you don't like it, then all I can say is deal with it. Just because I don't like how you dress doesn't mean I can ban you from wearing certain outfits. |
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Kris94
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 361
Location: Your head
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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i think gay people should marry if they want to.
and my opinion on transgender people... Whats the big deal? i man wants to be a woman, (or a woman wants to be a man) there is NOTHING wrong with that.
why do people hate so much? 
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amaren
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 24, 2008
Posts: 216
Location: wallowing in bed
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | No one is afraid of progressing. It has to do with values. There is no need in having homosexual marriages. |
The first sentence above is false - I have heard open, trustworthy people admit that even though a new situation would probably be better, they are afraid to bring it about, because they are comfortable where they are. I thought this was a very common experience.
Do you mean to say with the second 2 sentences that we should only value what is needed? I agree that in some minimal sense of 'need' homosexual marriage isn't needed - after all, no marriages are really *needed* - but I can't make sense of how this relates to the value of homosexual marriage.
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The rule for today.
Touch my tail, I shred your hand.
New rule tomorrow. |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | 1) The person who would take up such a task should have his medical license remove, even for thinking about it. |
Nope. If sex changes could be taken to the molecular level, then a person having undergone such a procedure really would become a member of the opposite sex, with all the bells and whistles.
| Quote: | | 2) If a man goes under surgery to appear as a female and fools his partner into believe that he IS a female, do you find this acceptable? |
This depends upon whether or not you hold lovers responsible for telling one another every single embarrassing detail about their pasts. Besides, sociological factors come into play here: it will remain necessary for some transsexuals to maintain their anonymity until this society has become enlightened enough to accept the idea of someone who wishes to pursue a sex change. This is a problem of your own creation, by the way. If not for such as you, transsexuals would not find it necessary to maintain their anonymity.
| Quote: | | 5) I've given some examples as to why I cannot just turn a blind eye. |
You haven't given crap. You just changed the subject.
| Quote: | | Another is the fact that I don't see it being acceptable to flaunt in society. Men who dress/want to be women. That is truly ridiculous. Enjoy it behind your doors, do not involve society, and do not expect everyone in society to appreciate your bravado. |
You also complained when they were maintaining their anonymity. You can't have it both ways, sir. The simple fact is that you just don't like transsexuals. Too bad. They're still going to be there, and you still have to coexist with them. The world can't adjust itself to suit your preference. Get used to it.
| Quote: | | 6) I made a point about it before. In either way, the black man will not be able to change his color, thus he is unable to do anything about being black. The transgendered or transsexual is in full control of his actions, thus is liable to receive criticism. |
When was the last time you had a look at Michael Jackson?
Okay! Bad example.
Anyway, this is really what is at the heart of the issue: it's the reasons that transsexuals have for choosing to change their gender. You call yourself "skeptical," but this seems to be a lie. I can no more be sure that they are lying than that they are telling the truth, though I find their condition curious. I would certainly be interested in knowing what motivates some people to undergo surgery and hormone replacement to have their sexes changed. You, on the other hand, seem to be very strongly attached to your belief that they are trying to mislead you. You are no skeptic, Osturia. In fact, you seem quite devoted to your paranoia.
Transvestites are one thing. I can see someone dressing up as a member of the opposite sex just for thrills. It is far more strange, however, for someone to go as far as surgery and hormone replacement. Why would someone with no history of conduct disorder and no history of thrill-seeking or drug-seeking behavior want to do this? This is not a certainty, but, for some reason, it does seem to occur. They seem to be so rare that they could rightly be considered proper outlyers...statistical anomalies. Whatever developmental oopsie causes this condition, I do not consider it grounds on which to consider a person any less a decent member of society.
Besides, it's not like this is something you'd have to deal with in your everyday life. Your chances of even meeting a transsexual are probably lower than your odds of being struck by lightening unless you go to some kind of convention. Post-ops constitute only a handful of the entire population, and most of them are pretty discreet. If you were to encounter such a person, you would probably never know it. Perhaps that's what makes you uneasy.
Oh, well. We're not going to instate a law requiring people to introduce themselves to you with a fact sheet describing their every ideosyncrasy. If you can't live with people, you should have stayed at home, you annoying, paranoid freak. |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| amaren wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | No one is afraid of progressing. It has to do with values. There is no need in having homosexual marriages. |
The first sentence above is false - I have heard open, trustworthy people admit that even though a new situation would probably be better, they are afraid to bring it about, because they are comfortable where they are. I thought this was a very common experience. |
This seems to be the case, which is why I'm perfectly satisfied with a more gradual introduction of the idea. It means less social upset, here and abroad, and full marital rights are all but inevitable in the long-term. It is quite simply inevitable. The good guys are winning. Hooray. No need to let impatience turn the issue more divisive than when it first came to light. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MR_BOGAN wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | greenblue wrote: | | Paperplate wrote: | | Same-sex marriages are legal where I live. Many homosexual people got married, even ppl known in the public eye. It makes no difference to society. What are you afraid of, giving gay people the right to get married? |
Progress. |
No one is afraid of progressing. It has to do with values. There is no need in having homosexual marriages. The argument that heterosexuals don't value their marriage is not even worth mentioning (as I've heard before). |
being a homosexual doesn't mean you have low values.
I think you have homosexual tendencies and are affraid to face up to them. I really don't get what the problem is.
It's not like it is going to start turning everybody gay, well unless you are a bit that way included oscuria.
If you want to marry a big black man that is your business, I don't have a problem with that. |
That is cute. I enjoy the argument that if I am against something then I must enjoy it--or am afraid of indulging in it. There is nothing better than that.
Why would I marry a black man? Why would I marry a black man that dresses like a woman? I wouldn't touch a black woman that looks like a man. I've dating black women that look like their proper sex before, however.
The problem is homosexual marriage. I don't see it being of any value to society. Simple. One of us is wrong. I don't feel I am.
I've already made a point, either here or in another thread, that marriage is meant to raise a family. It is also meant to be between a man and a woman (obviously many of you will disagree). Do I like the fact that many heterosexuals prefer to marry and not respect the marriage's boundaries? Of course not. Do I like Las Vegas weddings, as some other member mentioned, No. I find these bring down the value of a marriage and only distorts it. But because it is already a distorted message, why should then it be allowed to be distorted even further by allowing homosexuals to marry?
I see no point.
Be together, stay happy. And if the idea of marriage just burns you on the inside, then just go to another country. 
| amaren wrote: | | oscuria wrote: | | No one is afraid of progressing. It has to do with values. There is no need in having homosexual marriages. |
The first sentence above is false - I have heard open, trustworthy people admit that even though a new situation would probably be better, they are afraid to bring it about, because they are comfortable where they are. I thought this was a very common experience.
Do you mean to say with the second 2 sentences that we should only value what is needed? I agree that in some minimal sense of 'need' homosexual marriage isn't needed - after all, no marriages are really *needed* - but I can't make sense of how this relates to the value of homosexual marriage. |
Progressing in what sense? Progressing as in becoming more liberal, of course not. Progressing as in developing and improving, why not?
Here's a quick search I did: Progress - To advance toward a higher or better stage; improve steadily. Gay marriage in my opinion is not progress. Then again, my idea of progression may come across as regression for you
1) That is stupid. Anyone who supports such a proposal should be evaluated.
2) If I cheated on my wife, should I keep it from her? If my wife becomes pregnant with another man's child, should she keep that information from me? How is this situation any different than when a partner does not reveal his or her sex?
3) Take a closer look into the things that I am posting.
4) You're right, I don't like transsexuals. I've made that point very clear. I've explained why. But let it be known, before you or any other ignorant of the word, I do not hate transsexuals.
Now, if the world cannot adjust to suit my preference, then it is obnoxious for the "third gender" to believe, or demand, it will suit theirs.
5) I don't believe they are trying to mislead me. Frankly, I've not met many or know of many personally (I've met some transgendered, however). I just don't feel they are right in their thinking (both). Yes, I am against the fact that some will not disclose their gender. Because they are eunuchs does not mean they are women. If you feel like a woman, by all means embrace that feeling, but you are still not a woman at the end of the day. To demand to be accepted as such is utterly ridiculous and stupid. Why should I appease them if I in my mind do not see it as right? Because you feel it's better for society or for their emotions? I'm not as sympathetic as you--and we've established that.
About transvestites, I am sure they're not gay--or at least not all of them. I happen to like Eddie Izzard in all his drag-ness.
I'm really seeing no point in carrying our conversation, between my arguments and your insults; It is getting nowhere. |
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