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Teoka
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Northern VA
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 Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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You all can stop assuming things about what my motivations were right NOW.
I was NOT trying to disrupt the class on purpose. I already feel like everyone thinks I'm psychotic now; do you have any idea how hard it is to go to school now?! It turns out that more people who I thought were my friends think that I'm using my AS as an excuse to BS people. I figure that in time they'll learn, but as it is now, it's more painful than anything I've ever dealt with before. I'd like to note that those closest to me do not make those assumptions. My family, boyfriend, and close friends know how I'm different.
I was upset because my lunch routine had been changed and I felt excluded! I'm sure at least some of you can relate to that! I was originally going to be fine and calm down on my own, which I have only in the past few years been able to do on my own, but the teacher's sarcastic comment was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I wasn't trying to show aspies in a negative or positive light. I was just going about my day which was going horribly wrong. And as much as we all try, we can't hide the negative aspects about AS. We can try our best to show that we're not all bad, but no one is all good.
I would NEVER try to use my AS as an excuse for bad behavior. I wouldn't steal or shoot up the school and blame it on my AS. I wouldn't beat up my sister and blame it on my AS. I wouldn't speed through a red light and blame it on my AS. That's wrong and irresponsible. Aspies can do good and bad things separate from their AS.
And if you were wondering, Crawford tried to sugar-coat the story and left out every incriminating detail. Now, if he was really in the right, he should not have felt the need to change his story.
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Warsie
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
Age: 17
Posts: 895
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| spokane_girl wrote: | | Okay I guess I took you the wrong way then Warsie since you said teachers act that way to everyone and not just autistics disrupt class. |
cool 
| Quote: | I guess you think all of them shouldn't be forced to leave class or the teacher shouldn't have the whole class leave you?
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not forced, no.
| velodog wrote: |
No strawman here, you brought workers rights into the discussion. I simply responded by telling you how my Union handles those who deliberately disrupt jobsites. |
by saying that, you are implying that she was deliberately "disrupting work just for the hell of it.". Or am I wrong 
| Quote: | | If you believe that being an Aspie (or not an Aspie) gives you the right to refuse to take tests or otherwise meet academic standards to graduate then go for it. |
how do you know she would not finish the test and get to it after reforming?
| Teoka wrote: | | You all can stop assuming things about what my motivations were right NOW. |
Okay. I'll stop.
| Quote: | | do you have any idea how hard it is to go to school now?! |
Thinking that everyone when they are friendly to you are trying to f**k with you/troll you? Afraid to go into the cafeteria (I RARELY go into the school cafetarias now; haven't gone there regularly since Sophmore year, thankfully I have a cool teacher that lets me and some friends eat in his friends; or I go to the computer lab and play games/work/eat there if possible/etc)
I go to a small school (~600 students); hwo big is yours?
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9/11 was an inside job
http://www.911truth.org/
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srriv345
Velociraptor
Joined: Jul 19, 2006
Age: 21
Posts: 408
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Teoka wrote: |
I was NOT trying to disrupt the class on purpose. I already feel like everyone thinks I'm psychotic now; do you have any idea how hard it is to go to school now?! |
I'm very sorry you have to go through that. I can relate and I know it's not fun. I'm a few years older than you and in college, but I've found that people are often less concerned about me than I think they do. Everyone's caught up in their own lives. I don't know if that's any comfort to you, but I thought I'd mention it.
| Quote: | | It turns out that more people who I thought were my friends think that I'm using my AS as an excuse to BS people. I figure that in time they'll learn, but as it is now, it's more painful than anything I've ever dealt with before. |
That sucks, I'm sorry. I'm also sorry if my comments on this thread have come off as insensitive. You might want to think about different methods of disclosure for the future. Some people carry cards which explain what AS/autism is and how people should help in certain situations. It sounds like a pretty good system. I understand why you felt the need to disclose in the heat of the moment, but unfortunately that does sometimes lead others to think that you're trying to use it as an "excuse" even though you aren't.
I've tried to avoid the whole "people thinking I'm psychotic" thing by attempting to disclose when I'm in a calm state of mind. A few months ago I sent a letter to my dorm-mates telling them that I have AS and explaining to them what that is in a nutshell and how it affects me in relation to them. I told them that I was working on learning better coping skills, but that outbursts do sometimes happen, and they shouldn't be alarmed.
I don't know if any of this is actually of any use to you. I just wanted to say that I am very sorry if my remarks were insensitive, and that I've been in a very similar position. |
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 2912
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Teoka wrote: | You all can stop assuming things about what my motivations were right NOW.
I was NOT trying to disrupt the class on purpose. I already feel like everyone thinks I'm psychotic now; do you have any idea how hard it is to go to school now?! It turns out that more people who I thought were my friends think that I'm using my AS as an excuse to BS people. I figure that in time they'll learn, but as it is now, it's more painful than anything I've ever dealt with before. I'd like to note that those closest to me do not make those assumptions. My family, boyfriend, and close friends know how I'm different.
I was upset because my lunch routine had been changed and I felt excluded! I'm sure at least some of you can relate to that! I was originally going to be fine and calm down on my own, which I have only in the past few years been able to do on my own, but the teacher's sarcastic comment was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I wasn't trying to show aspies in a negative or positive light. I was just going about my day which was going horribly wrong. And as much as we all try, we can't hide the negative aspects about AS. We can try our best to show that we're not all bad, but no one is all good.
I would NEVER try to use my AS as an excuse for bad behavior. I wouldn't steal or shoot up the school and blame it on my AS. I wouldn't beat up my sister and blame it on my AS. I wouldn't speed through a red light and blame it on my AS. That's wrong and irresponsible. Aspies can do good and bad things separate from their AS.
And if you were wondering, Crawford tried to sugar-coat the story and left out every incriminating detail. Now, if he was really in the right, he should not have felt the need to change his story. |
Okay, they way you said it, you made it sound like you were using it as an excuse. I have had meltdowns in class before for other reasons and I was sent to the resource room. I never ever said I have AS. I have learned that saying you have it makes it sound like you are using it as an excuse so it's better to be quiet about it.
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Aspergers, PDD-NOS, autistic, who cares what diagnoses I have, it's just a label. All on the spectrum. |
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Teoka
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I suppose I'll try the card thing. It works for the Day of Silence, so it could work for something like this.
I should note that it was a practice test, not an actual test. You know those annoying practice tests that some teachers will have you do to prepare for a standardized test such as the SAT, PSAT, SOL, etc.? It was one of those and had no bearing on my grade.
My school is one of the largest schools in the country: over 4,000 students, grades 7-12. And though I hardly know everyone, the people who are not close to me, whom I deal with on a daily basis, seem to act like they know everything about what happened. Though I haven't been harassed directly, I have had students tell me that I'm embarrassing myself and even nastier things over the internet.
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My Anti-Drug
Aspie score: 159 out of 200 |
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Warsie
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
Age: 17
Posts: 895
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Teoka wrote: |
My school is one of the largest schools in the country: over 4,000 students, grades 7-12. |
7-12...one of the fused middle-high schools I think. Okay.
| Quote: | | Though I haven't been harassed directly, I have had students tell me that I'm embarrassing myself and even nastier things over the internet. |
f****....
Also, do you go to any anime conventions or anything?
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Warsie here.
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.911truth.org/
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RainSong
The Argumentive Lunatic
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 4173
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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You may not have been disrupting the class on purpose, but you were disrupting them just the same. And you say you're not trying to use your AS as an excuse, but that's what you've been doing to explain why you interrupting the other people in the room. You haven't taken responsibility for one thing yet; it's all the teacher's fault, according to you. You haven't even acknowledged the other students' needs; it's only about you.
The fact of the matter is that not everything can be sugar-coated to suit your needs and desires. Your teacher couldn't have known that you were excluded during lunch, and his comment was not that far out of line; you weren't working on the assignment. You refused to do as asked; what was he supposed to do besides yelling at you? He shouldn't have to care what disability you have - quite frankly, I don't see why that's the most insulting thing you've ever heard; you must have been quite sheltered if that's the worst thing you've ever heard - when all he's asking you to do is to leave the classroom so that you don't continue distracting the other students.
It may only have been a practice test, but I've seen people significantly improve with one practice test. Personally, some practice tests really helped on the real versions, because then I knew what to expect. Just because you don't value it doesn't mean that others don't.
Quite frankly, I think that suing over that incident would be a foolish thing to do. Even other aspies are pointing out how your premise if flawed; you expect others to do anything else?
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| Warsie wrote: | | velodog wrote: | | You and other Teens are the first generation of Aspies that are going through as Aspies and how you conduct yourselves will affect subsequent generations. That's why a Pyrrhic Victory is unsat. |
I'm sorry, but how is standing up for your rights and aggressively pushing back at the aggressors a 'bad' thing? I never understood this view that people like MLK, etc stated; to be moderate and not radical. I tended to agree with the Black Panthers and Malcolm X more often. |
Personally, I think Martin Luther King had a lot more to do with fixing racism then terrorists. To stretch the metaphor a bit, how much did 9/11 actually help Islam? Violence begets violence, which is a big problem when the other side has the bigger stick. |
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beau99
B.S. Detector
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Joined: Nov 06, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 1268
Location: A cruel H*llhole called Earth.
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| RainSong wrote: | You may not have been disrupting the class on purpose, but you were disrupting them just the same. And you say you're not trying to use your AS as an excuse, but that's what you've been doing to explain why you interrupting the other people in the room. You haven't taken responsibility for one thing yet; it's all the teacher's fault, according to you. You haven't even acknowledged the other students' needs; it's only about you.
The fact of the matter is that not everything can be sugar-coated to suit your needs and desires. Your teacher couldn't have known that you were excluded during lunch, and his comment was not that far out of line; you weren't working on the assignment. You refused to do as asked; what was he supposed to do besides yelling at you? He shouldn't have to care what disability you have - quite frankly, I don't see why that's the most insulting thing you've ever heard; you must have been quite sheltered if that's the worst thing you've ever heard - when all he's asking you to do is to leave the classroom so that you don't continue distracting the other students.
It may only have been a practice test, but I've seen people significantly improve with one practice test. Personally, some practice tests really helped on the real versions, because then I knew what to expect. Just because you don't value it doesn't mean that others don't.
Quite frankly, I think that suing over that incident would be a foolish thing to do. Even other aspies are pointing out how your premise if flawed; you expect others to do anything else? |
...
YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS.
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My site: Thoughts of an Autistic (updated May 20, 2008)
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Danielismyname
In his image
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5326
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: |
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AS is a pretty good excuse for "bad" behaviour; many people seem to forget that individuals with any ASD can exhibit disruptive behaviour, which is directly related to the ASD (no matter what label one has).
The teacher shouldn't have yelled at you (said yelling probably made the situation worst), but you also shouldn't have disrupted the class with your crying; if you walked out of the class, it would have been far easier for everyone. Perhaps in the future, it'd be wiser to do such. I'm sure you'll be allowed to do such due to your diagnosis.
I walked out in high school when I became overwhelmed. |
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RainSong
The Argumentive Lunatic
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 4173
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| beau99 wrote: | | YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS. |
Of course I'm serious. Since when does being different give you the right to be the only one considered?
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Teoka
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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There is a difference between using AS as a legitimate explanation and as a ridiculous excuse. Saying that you freaked out in the middle of a crowded street due to your AS is plausible, but saying that you shot up a school because of your AS is bull.
Again, I would have left if I wasn't so anxious. It's hard to explain, but getting up in front of the class alone would just make me want to shrink back into my seat. Gotta love GAD =_=
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Spokane_Girl
I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 2912
Location: Benny & Joon town (I wish)
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is why I don't say I have AS, then people would think I was using it as an excuse. I can't blame them though or us for thinking this about you. So many people out there use their disabilities as an excuse, aspies too and auties, now people assume everyone is using it as an excuse when they say they are autistic or AS. Thank those leeches who did this to us when we say we have it to try and explain our behavior so everyone would understand, but instead they think we're using it as an excuse. Wolf has been cried so many times, people just assume we're using it as an excuse, now we have to keep quiet about our conditions when we are showing the symptoms. I'm sure people with other disabilities get the same crap too. Even parents of autistic kids or AS get the same crap from other people when they say their child has autism or AS. I guess parents have used their child's disabilities as an excuse for their behaviors as well. Some parents do let their kids do whatever they want and never punish them or try and teach them because of their disability.
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Aspergers, PDD-NOS, autistic, who cares what diagnoses I have, it's just a label. All on the spectrum. |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Teoka wrote: | There is a difference between using AS as a legitimate explanation and as a ridiculous excuse. Saying that you freaked out in the middle of a crowded street due to your AS is plausible, but saying that you shot up a school because of your AS is bull.
Again, I would have left if I wasn't so anxious. It's hard to explain, but getting up in front of the class alone would just make me want to shrink back into my seat. Gotta love GAD =_= |
Hmm, it sounds like maybe you really were stuck. I can really sympathize with the anxiety aspect.
I think where some of us are getting stuck is the idea that you were too stressed to leave the class, but were able to stand up against the teacher, which is arguably more stressful. But when I think about it, if you were too paralyzed to move, your only option was to lash out. As I and many other people have said, the most logical thing to do would have been to leave. But, how exactly were you supposed to get calm enough to think rationally in that situation? If you were so panicked that you couldn't think clearly at the time, then being told repeatedly 'you should have used better judgement' is not particularly useful advice. You were stuck in an impossible situation, and you reacted as well as you could, given the circumstances.
But, I still think it's not fair to totally blame the teacher. I feel that he acted in a reasonable manner; just because he had been told of your difficulties doesn't mean that he'd been told how to deal with them. Sure, he didn't handle himself in the best possible way, but you didn't either. He's human; he makes mistakes, just like everybody else.
Since, IMO, neither of you could really have helped the situation, blame shouldn't be assigned. What should be focused on is how the situation could be changed, to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Yes, he's no longer your teacher, but I can say with certainty that you will have to deal with situations like this again, unless you give up and resign yourself to being hopelessly disabled. I would hate to see that, since you seem like a smart person.
There's five ways that I can think of that the situation might have been avoided.
1) You could have skipped the class, knowing that you were feeling horrible and likely to have a meltdown if stressed. There's no shame in this - I've done it regularly at times when I needed to. The key is for you to arrange to catch-up on what was missed on your own. So long as you take responsibility for that, then it's perfectly reasonable not to go into a situation that you're pretty sure will end badly.
2) You and the teacher could have arranged an agreed-upon signal to tell the teacher to leave you alone, that you weren't being rebellious about the test, but were feeling overwhelmed. I do this with all my teachers, and it works very well. The hard part is getting your teachers to trust that you won't abuse the signal. Saying 'you have to, because I'm disabled' is a very bad idea, and will make the most reasonable teacher nervous about you. That's what people who really are abusing the system say; lumping yourself with those fools is a bad idea.
If 'you must' is the only way to get the teacher to agree, be extremely careful about using it. So long as it's very obvious that you only use it when you absolutely have to, and are hesitant even then, you will gain the teacher's trust. Once the teacher trusts you, then you can start to use it more frequently. And once you gain a reputation for being trustworthy, then even people who haven't met you yet will be more inclined to listen to your needs.
3) You could have had a better exit strategy. Here are the steps I take to minimize the stress of leaving a class part way through:
-> At the beginning of every term, I approach all my teachers individually outside of class time and warn them about the possibility of melt-downs. I tell them that I can handle myself, and will leave if I'm starting to lose control. If I do get up and leave the class, please ignore me and keep teaching. I will take responsibility for catching up on anything I miss. I never had a teacher who didn't agree to this right away.
-> When I fear that I may have a meltdown, I try to sit near an exit. That way I don't have to travel as far to leave, and attract less notice. In the right classroom layouts, people may not even notice you leaving.
-> I arrange to have access to a 'safe' room, a quiet place where I can go, no questions asked, to have a meltdown. I can go in, cry and stim to my heart's content, and then leave when I'm done, without talking to anybody about it.
This is something, IMO, which is okay to get demanding about. It's usually really easy to do and it actually means less work for the counsellor. It's ridiculous to ask someone who regularly has anxiety attacks to explain herself every time she needs to calm down. If it's something important, then I'll talk to the counsellor. If it's just me being autistic, why waste everyone's time and make me feel even more stressed from interacting with people, when I really just need everyone to leave me alone?
4) You could have given the teacher a list of instructions on how to recognize a meltdown coming on, what to do to help prevent it from happening, and what to do when it does happen. As several other people have said, he acted in a sensible manner, he couldn't have known that this or that wasn't helpful, blah blah blah. If you give him a list of what to do that is clear and understandable, he no longer has this excuse.
Simply saying that you have this or that diagnosis isn't really enough. He won't look up how to handle them on his own time, and it really isn't fair to expect him to. But if you give him a list, that has been looked over and approved by the counsellor, then he has no excuse.
Now, if I guess correctly, you're going to balk at the 'approved by counsellor' part. You don't like your counsellor, that's fine. I don't know the issue is which makes it hard to comment. Put literature in front of her face that basically states what should be done during a meltdown, and she pretty much has to agree with you, or you really do have grounds to launch an official complaint.
The book Asperger Syndrome and Difficult Moments is a pretty good guide to meltdowns, if a bit unflattering. It gives pretty good instructions on how to deal with meltdowns, and actually has a list of teacher behaviours that make things worse, including 'Using sarcasm', 'Acting superior', 'Using degrading, insulting, humiliating or embarrassing putdowns', and 'Backing the student into a corner'. With this, you actually CAN prove that what the teacher did was not helpful, though he wouldn't likely be reprimanded since he can honestly say he didn't know.
Clicking on the underlined name will take you to a site that sells it. Be warned, the book is actually designed to deal with students a bit younger then I think you are. But if you are willing to risk a bit of patronizing, then you can use it to bring the counsellor onto your side in the future.
5) This is the hardest one and I still struggle with it. It isn't something that you always have to do, and I wouldn't blame you if you choose not to. I'm being very honest here, and not pulling punches.
You could have gone to the teacher and apologized for disrupting the class after you had calmed down.
I suspect that you will find this absolutely outrageous, and possibly proof that I have no idea what you're going through. You didn't have control, the teacher pushed you to it, you're depressed, and it’s horrible and unfair. You have Asperger's and GAD, and life is hard and you're always struggling.
I know that, I've been there, and in some ways I still am. Life isn't fair, and it hurts. I hate having meltdowns, and losing control. I hate living in a world that doesn't always make sense, and punishes me for not understanding it. I hate being misunderstood, being judged, being forced to conform to nigh-impossible standards.
All I can say is that it got easier after awhile. I am starting to get it, and I'm actually starting to outperform the NT's around me, and it's wonderful. I'm sure you can do the same.
One thing I've learned it the importance of taking responsibility. Yes, when you were in the situation you may have been stuck, but there were steps you could have taken to prevent it. You are not helpless, you are smart and capable, and you can take control of your fate. It's hard, but you can do it.
I'm not asking you to take full responsibility for the situation; some of it belongs to the teacher, for aggravating the situation, and some of it belongs to the counsellor. It's her job to help you with situations like this, not leave you floundering on your own. There are steps that she also could have taken to prevent it from happening.
I'm not asking you to say that the teacher did nothing wrong. He did make things worse, there's no question. He could have been more sensitive, he could have looked up your diagnosis, he could have done a lot of things. It's okay to be angry at him for his part, even though it isn't all his fault.
What I am asking you to do is to take responsibility for your own actions. The class was disrupted, and you did have something to do with it. You also could have taken steps to prevent it. Some of it does belong to you, there's simply no getting around that. You had had a meltdown before, you could have predicted this. I'm really sorry to say this, because I know it's unfair. Yeah, it's easy for me to say you could have done this or that, because I've had a ka-jillion years to practise and test things out. But for me, the first step was to take responsibility for what was mine, and then figure out what I could do about it.
When you do accept your part, it's also important to forgive yourself. You did what you did with the best of intentions and to the best of your ability. It's okay to let it go, to accept you lost one battle, then move on to keep fighting the war. I'm sure you have learned a lot from this experience, and will do better in the future.
If you did apologize for your actions to the teacher, for the part that you could have done better, then you are proving that you really weren't being a brat, that you are struggling with a disability and that you really want to do better. It's incredibly hard to be this honest, and sometimes it can leave you exposed for attack, but it can salvage the situation when all else is lost. It also makes people incredibly sympathetic - to admit weakness, but still take responsibility for what you can, is viewed by many as quite noble.
If exposing yourself this way will only lead to being attack while you are vulnerable, then don't do it. Keeping yourself safe should come first. But if you can, I'd really recommend it. |
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Teoka
Snowy Owl
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Northern VA
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Speckles, your post is probably the most helpful I've read in a long, long time. ^_^ I haven't even thought of some of the things you suggested!
Actually, though, he was informed of what would trigger a meltdown or make it worse in great detail, face-to-face with my parents. Funnily enough, he did each of the things that you mentioned in point number four.
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