| Why does the Catholic chruch defend illegal immigration? |
| because it is the christian thing to do |
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48% |
[ 13 ] |
| because most illegal immigrants are catholic |
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51% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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Fuzzy
Atheist/Apostate Aspie
Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 5530
Location: Alberta Canada
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: |
No, it's not. Try telling that to an ID proponent. The two ideas are not at all the same. |
Correct. ID states that god takes an active part in what creatures will be. The machine is not perpetual; god must push it with his finger.
The Catholic inner party line(pun intented Orwell!) is that god started evolution and that environmental factors now steer the outcome. The machine is perpetual. After the initial activation it runs on its own.
Faith and ration need not be at odds.
A catholic may use ration to understand the material world even to the point of extending that back as far as the big bang, which is as far as science goes anyway.
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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It's fun to see Chick talking about cookie worshipping, while every Christian would be guilty of paper worshiping under the same logic.
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LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 5689
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slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 11411
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Vexcalibur wrote: | | It's fun to see Chick talking about cookie worshipping, while every Christian would be guilty of paper worshiping under the same logic. |
Please explain this to me. Cookie worshipping and now paper worshipping? |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 13715
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy wrote: | | The Catholic inner party line(pun intented Orwell!) is that god started evolution and that environmental factors now steer the outcome. The machine is perpetual. After the initial activation it runs on its own. |
 Hm, that's a different take on the Catholic theistic evolution view than I've heard before (not saying it's wrong, since I don't care enough to look very deeply into it). It sounds somewhat like Newton's "clockmaker" analogy and thus slightly deist. I had been under the impression the theistic evolution implied that God somehow guided evolution. Of course, what form this guidance takes could just as easily be setting up favorable initial conditions and then letting it run on its own, so your explanation still seems to work.
In any case, my church's leadership was prudent enough to have a better grasp of the boundaries of their knowledge: they are theologians, not scientists, and do not publish issue statements attempting to rule on scientific matters. Instead, they merely say that, after their study and prayer, they find no conflict between Christian faith and scientific knowledge, and church members are free to believe what they choose rather than take biology lessons from the clergy.
 PCUSA FTW!!
| Quote: | | Faith and ration need not be at odds. |
Never. Such barriers between the two are artificial and unnecessary.
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Dogbrain
Toucan
Joined: Aug 05, 2008
Age: 47
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| slowmutant wrote: | | Vexcalibur wrote: | | It's fun to see Chick talking about cookie worshipping, while every Christian would be guilty of paper worshiping under the same logic. |
Please explain this to me. Cookie worshipping and now paper worshipping? |
First, "Vexcalibur" is wrong about "under the same logic". What he does mean is that Jack Chick claims that Roman Catholics, since they believe that the Host is the actual Body of Christ, must, therefore worship a "cookie". Vexcalibur extends this to Bibliolatry, which is, unfortunately, far too common among Western Christians, who worship the Bible instead of the God about whom the Bible is written. My own Church, on the other hand, makes it quite plain that the Bible is not the "Word of God" (not the Divine Logos) but is, instead, "words from God" or "words about God". |
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