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  Aspie Affection
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High Performance IQ with no visualization ability.
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AlienVisitor
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse


Joined: Sep 17, 2009
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject: Nonverbal learning disorder (NLD) Reply with quote

Hi folks,

Here are a couple links, and please go googling for more information.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_learning_disorder
> http://ohioline.osu.edu/flm03/FS11.pdf

NLD description corresponds more or less to my situation:

I wrote 'more or less' because:
- I don't have a well-developed memory of any kind, working memory, long-term memory, whatever.
- I'm considered 'clumsy' by people around me (trouble with gymnastics, dancing, manual work, etc) BUT I was 'good' at various sports, from soccer to tennis and not a bad runner or... fighter.

Besides these 'discrepancies' between the general description of NLD and my own 'problems', here is what seems to fit the description:
- Huge gap between visual/spatial and verbal intelligences.
- Absence of mental imagery.
- Can't relate to most math, especially geometry but most algebra as well, beyond elementary math, elementary statistics. A shock to teachers, used to be very good at simple math and stats, but can't relate to any more 'advanced' mathematics.
- Very bad at producing literary work, no imagination, same for drawing and the arts included music.
- Said to have no sense of humor, as understood by most of the population.
- Trouble developing, maintaining social relationships. Had 'friends', 'girlfriends', people enter and leave my life all the time, sometimes called an hermit, loner... by others. Said to be living in his own world, and likes to be left alone, always in the corner in a group, relatives, friends, strangers, any social group.

Now how do I relate to Asperger's?
- As a child, obsessive Asperger-like interests, one I remember was memorizing the population of every town in the region. Hoped to know by heart the name of every city and the population figures of every place of the planet, but hey, very bad memory, not photographic at all, so ambition never fulfilled.
- Would not say hello to people at family meetings or to visitors at my parent's home. Secretive, reclusive as a child, still is.
- Repetitive routines, likes to eat the same food or wear the same clothes, reluctant to change.
- Said to be both insensitive and sensitive, hard to empathize (some people thought I might be a sociopath), but also very sensitive and prone to emotional outbursts. So too insensitive, too sensitive.
- Social anxiety.
- Poor speech, prefer to know what to say before entering into a dialogue with another person, otherwise, lot's of confusion.
- Talk too much or barely talk.
- Love talking about my interests to anybody, long inappropriate Asperger-like monologues. Tend to disregard what discussion partner says.
- Can be very focused. Work in IT.
- Avoid eye contact.

...etc.

Now I know this doesn't make me autistic per se, not in the clinical sense, but I can relate quite a bit to people suffering from mild forms of autism.

OK I hope you guys with issues pertaining to mental imagery have found the NLD part of my post interesting.

Regards,
AlienVisitor

PS: I'm not a native English speaker, I'm stating the obvious but I just wanted to make it clear. Laughing

Note: I just saw the NLD sticky thread, sorry Very Happy


Last edited by AlienVisitor on Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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j0sh
Toucan
Toucan


Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Age: 32
Posts: 295
Location: Tampa, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I saw the Neurologist yesterday. He’s never had a patient that reported having no mental image capability to him. I find it kind of interesting that a highly recommended Neurologist that’s been in practice for 9 years has never heard this from a patient. I guess it’s not too common.

I’ll be doing a 24 hour EEG in a few weeks. They will also do an MRI of my brain. I’m really interested to see if and what differences may show on my MRI.

He will be looking for tumors, tissue damage, evidence of a past stroke, ect. My cousin died about 6 months ago from brain cancer. If a tumor is found to be the cause of me being incapable of mental images, I don’t think I will freak out. It would had to of been there since before age 3. If it hadn’t killed me yet, it would have to be malignant.

I suspect there will be some damage or abnormality in the high hemisphere. I don’t know a ton, but maybe it will be the right temporal lobe. It seems that this area of the brain plays a role in mental imagery. Stimulation of the temporal lobes can cause people to have hallucinations. Stimulating the left temporal lobe can cause auditory hallucinations. Stimulation of the right temporal lobe can cause visual hallucinations.

As far as NLD goes… I don’t fit the VIQ>PIQ difference that is common. It seems that NLD is mainly diagnosed based on examining cognitive strengths/weaknesses and behavioral symptoms. I want the neurologist to examine my brain for physical differences. I’ll discuss NLD with my other doctor.
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AlienVisitor
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse


Joined: Sep 17, 2009
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j0sh wrote:
Well, I saw the Neurologist yesterday. He’s never had a patient that reported having no mental image capability to him. I find it kind of interesting that a highly recommended Neurologist that’s been in practice for 9 years has never heard this from a patient. I guess it’s not too common.


Thanks a lot for your post, very interesting. Please keep us updated.
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polymathpoolplayer
Velociraptor
Velociraptor


Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

j0sh wrote:
starygrrl wrote:
The VIQ on the WAIS-III is verbal IQ, not visual IQ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Adult_Intelligence_Scale


I understand that. I've also seen that some think the majority of people with ASD are visual thinkers. I've seen that reflected in some of the discussions on these forums. It seems like the majority of people here are visual thinkers. Some studies have shown that people with AS usually score higher on VIQ than PIQ when there is a discrepancy.

So I'd like to know if there are people that primarily think visually, but score higher on VIQ than PIQ on IQ tests. I understand it's not supposed to work that way, but something doesn't add up. If the majority of people with AS are visual thinkers, why is it more common for them to have a higher VIQ than PIQ?

It's the flip side of my own situation. My visual thinking is impaired, but I scored higher on PIQ than VIQ. I'd like to know if anyone else has the same profile or the opposite. I see no harm in asking, even if that's not how it's supposed to work.


Actually Aspies/Auties are extreme: most are highly visual with some who have zero visual ability (like me)
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j0sh
Toucan
Toucan


Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Age: 32
Posts: 295
Location: Tampa, Florida

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m scheduled for an MRI in two days. I think I know one of the things that will show up… I think the reason I cannot see any mental images is due to an abnormality in the right hippocampus.

From what I can gather, that’s where visual memory is stored. The hippocampus is part of the temporal lobe. There is a left and right temporal lobe. The left controls functions like language and emotions. The right controls visual memory and visual spacial processing.

Abnormalities in the brain can cause seizures. I had NO FREAKING IDEA that I was having seizures because the only type of seizure I knew about was the classic Tonic Colonic type that cause full body reactions. The tingles I get when I listen to music or am thinking deeply may possibly be Simple Partial Seizures and evidence of dysfunction in the temporal lobes.

I can’t really adequately explain this experience. A year ago I discovered that all this time, 99.9% of everyone I knew could actually see things in their minds. I’m baffled at how useful this basic brain function must be for learning (especially spelling). Now I may actually know why I can’t. The best comparison I can come up with is finding out when you’re 31, that you’ve been deaf and not aware of it. Then you find out why…. I can’t put words to it.
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