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| Should ASD kids be taught to look others in the eye? |
| Absolutely, they gotta learn! |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| Not if too stressful... |
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66% |
[ 16 ] |
| Just leave the poor dears alone! |
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25% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 24 |
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Core
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely NOT!
Let me clarify, few people want to even look themselves in the eyes, just try it in a mirror up close and you'll feel something very odd when you lock eyes, perhaps that may intrigue kids though, but there's a MUCH better method i'll impart to you'all. And it works great in job interviews!!
Note: If you're a Manager or Boss do not read further! (Give our kids a chance rather than intimidating them).
The wonderful thing about talking with people is the feeling of eye to face contact without any stresses at all, and i really mean that.
As an aspy i've sweated tons till i invented this trick to feel at home looking anyone "in the eyes" while talking or listening with them.
The truth is people do not feel comfortable being looked at in the eyes, but few people actually are looking in someone's eyes when they think they are, problem is they think they are and probably are not, it is an illusion.
I'll say it as it is, ask someone to relax and look you in the eyes, now watch this happen, you will notice that they most often look above your eye level, you'll feel this at the brow, if you ask them they'll say they're looking you in the eyes(!). And if you ask them if they're confortable doing this they may actually tell you they are not so confortable doing this, and this is because they feel you're looking at them in the eyes.
So the way to shift this around is simple, i teach kids and young adults to actually pick a point slightly below the eye level, often on the bridge of the nose, to look at, then i tell them to go up or down till i feel that they're looking me in the eyes directly, it is easy to know when they are, it's piercing if they're focusing. When they are i tell them that that is the spot, and boy are they surprised! I ask them if they could comfortably look there all day and they say they could!
I know this works very well, it has helped me listen to people while giving them the perception of ease and attention they deserve, and i cannot understate how very useful this has been in job application meetings.
One last note, since a you may want to shift the stress to the person trying to stare you down or intimidate you, just look at a point that practice has shown to be a good resting point and move up or down till you get a pupil dilation reaction from them, that is the exact point where they "feel" you are looking them in the eyes, fix your focus there and they'll back down or look away! Since you do not feel this same reaction you can stay there all day relaxed or till they give up.
Mostly what "interrogators" think are "lying eyes" are a normal intimidated person's reaction to people trying to "read" their eyes during a false interrogation. Even animals shy away from a strong and direct focus, it is normally intimidating even in a mirror.
Since you now know a 100% better working way to help anyone give attention in conversation, teach them, but don't tell the wrong people or they'll just find a different way to intimidate others.
Cor'e =) |
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Stinkypuppy
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 03, 2006
Age: 31
Posts: 1232
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I voted "not if too stressful". To me, eye contact is soul-searing, like trying to peer into a person's true self and seeing that person's vulnerabilities, and he sees into your own. I would only do it voluntarily with somebody I trust and love completely, or somebody I intentionally want to stare down in a more-or-less threatening way, and nothing in between... kind of like how a dog will avoid eye contact with his master but will stare down threats.
I think it's important for parents to teach their children social skills, and eye contact falls under that category, but they should be taught that they are exactly that, social skills, and not that such social skills are "right." Teaching that social skills are "right" only leads to the children hating themselves, because what is "right" is not natural to them. Children should learn that social skills are like work skills, and once they leave the house they should put their game face on with people who expect them to do so. However they should be free to relax that game face when around people who don't expect them to maintain that facade. They should also be free to put away that face at home when they need an energy recharge, just like one goes home and de-stresses after a long day at work. It's important to teach the skills early, as the usage of those skills becomes seamless only with time and lots of practice.
In time they will learn that social skills have some benefits, but with drawbacks in that energy is required to maintain them and it's up to the individual to decide how much energy he or she wants to invest in a particular social skill. If people think that maintaining the social skill is "right" then the child will grow up repressing himself, leading to all sorts of mental and emotional health issues later on as his energy is entirely consumed by maintaining that facade. Nobody needs that baggage!
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peterd
Velociraptor
Joined: Dec 26, 2006
Age: 57
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:38 am Post subject: |
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The thing is, an aspie can't help but do the eye gaze thing wrong. So encouraging an aspie kid to do it leads to increased risk of a punch in the mouth. OK, I guess, depending on what you're trying to teach, but ultimately unhelpful in growing into an aspie who can participate in society.
Of course, once there's a little age in the mix, the chances improve. But, IMHO, the issue remains: an aspie can't help but do the eye gaze thing wrong. |
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nansnick
Toucan
Joined: Apr 21, 2009
Posts: 286
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| 2leftfeet wrote: | | Quote: | | The main reason eye contact drives me crazy is the whole AS focus issue. If i'm looking at you IM LOOKING AT YOU. All focus. Rather than listen to you, which is done with the ears and not the eyes, which is probably just me as an AS taking things literally. |
That aspect of Aspie interaction with others had never occurred to me before. I think you have a very valid point. |
Why is this not obvious to the Doctors? For all their hard work I've never met a Professional who's been able to figure this one out.
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'I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity' |
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 4737
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| computerlove wrote: | | makuranososhi wrote: | | computerlove wrote: | Don't make him do it... if you want the kid to have a miserable life.
If should be FORCED on any age, not just kids. Aspies need to be taught to look into people's eyes, and they also need to have classes where you are forced to socialize
and learn about teamwork,
learn how to relate to other people
and learn entitlement,
and have self-confidence,
to have a chance to make it in life. |
Completely disagree; forcing people into things builds resentment and aversion. Looking at people's eyes was uncomfortable... I eventually learned and decided to make that change - the eyes were easier than looking at their faces. But not everyone is a round peg for a round hole. Learn how to function as oneself, not as someone else decides is correct.
M. |
So basically you are saying that it's ok, all in the name of "don't let the person feel uncomfortable?" and that you prefer to see a population of aspies that can't hold a job, or even worse, have to live on goverment support, charity or be homeless? Oh, and let's not forget that in some countries like mine there's no government support for the unemployed.
Unfortunately the forum has plenty of stories about all of the above mentioned, people who have lots of difficulties even getting a f***ing interview. And on the other side you have this person, very capable, with plenty of knowledge, that when in a interview will be seen as not good enough for the job, just because he avoided eye contact or doesn't know how to chit chat.
All in the name of "let's not help him to be better, it's better the way it is".
And then you'll say "but being aspies has worked for some people like X and Y", and yes, I agree, but that's the exception, rare cases, not the majority as one would expect. |
Um, no - those are your words and your perspective on that choice. Forcing someone to do something isn't going to make anyone a better person. That isn't to say there aren't benefits to learning eye contact, but your suggestion that it be forced upon people leaves me sickened. Being able to make eye contact isn't going to necessarily get one a job - having just spent a number of months cross-country seeking employment, I speak from my own experience here. And let me ask this - what then of those who are 'forced' yet are unable to comply or maintain these 'skills' that you speak of? Reasons are many, our experiences are but our own... it is folly for any of us to think we know best for others.
M.
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auntyjack
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| 2leftfeet wrote: | I voted "Not if too stressful" , but I wish there had been an option along the lines of "yes, if done as part of overall social skills training", or some such.
The barometer for me is whether any kind of training for Aspies is furthering social adjustment and therefore helping the child to feel better about himself/herself and to better cope with the world. |
hmmmm
?Why is called training for Autistics and teaching for non autistics. I would suggest that social skills education for Autistics should also have a component for their communication partners who are not Autistics so that they can learn how to meet us half way with understanding and accommodations. Receiving informed support would go a long way towards making people feel better about themselves rather than requiring them to become some kind of fake nt. It would also help the world to cope better with them and in turn they would cope better with the world. |
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Mysty
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Posts: 866
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: |
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I think there's also the question, can they be taught to "look others in the eye". Assuming we mean teaching appropriate social eye contract, the question of should it be taught and can it be taught go together.
Teach things that actually can be taught, and that are helpful as taught. |
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