Question for the Aspie males that want girlfriends.

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Kilroy
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02 Mar 2010, 12:21 pm

well I think its a smart thing, often people fall for eachother later
a lot of guys with AS have their heads up their ass and don't understand how the real world works



Hector
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02 Mar 2010, 12:23 pm

I'm not saying this is how people should be, it's how I am. I wish I could become attracted to women at will, that would be splendid.



Kilroy
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02 Mar 2010, 12:25 pm

well thats a personal thing
while i don't have crushes on girls-that's more because I don't get to know them
cause I don't get close to people
but I have had crushes on people in the past, etc etc etc
dating isn't some huge, omg thing a lot of people think it is
its supposed to be fun and happy
lighthearted
if you click and become a couple then its more serious
but the first times are just to have fun, and a lot of people don't understand that



therange
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02 Mar 2010, 2:45 pm

Sound wrote:
A ton of great information on this page. Nice.
therange wrote:
...write about themselves in such a way that they sound like a neccesity...
???


Maybe necessity isn't the right word, but a lot of guys don't know how to sell themselves. This goes back to a lot of Aspies not knowing how interview for jobs. Just making yourself sound as much of a catch as possible without lying.



Aspie1
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03 Mar 2010, 12:16 am

Hector wrote:
I'm not saying this is how people should be, it's how I am. I wish I could become attracted to women at will, that would be splendid.

For me it's not so much becoming attracted to women at will, as "mapping" my biologically driven attraction toward model-type girls (hot face, long hair, big breasts, slender waist) onto girls that are in my league. For a networking analogy, think of a DNS server (or a hosts file) that maps domain names onto IP addresses. For example, www,wamu,com leads to a website at 159.53.84.27. There is hacking technique called pharming, where you cross-map trusted domain names onto rogue IP addresses. For example, on a compromised DNS server, www,wamu,com will now lead to a fake website at 217.43.112.98 (fictitious address) that connects to criminal's database and steals your information.

I have the ability to "pharm" my brain in a similar way, thanks to the wonderful powers given to me by AS. I don't know single one of my friends (all NTs) who are able to do this. Instead of having the "I want her" response to a hot girl as "normally", I simply cross-map that same response onto a homely girl after she shows interest in me. It's not so much a matter of will, as simply having the reaction that already exists to a different person. And I'm sure my networking analogies explain it all pretty well. Feel free to post your thoughts on this.



Kilroy
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03 Mar 2010, 12:19 am

...what the hell was that?!



therange
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03 Mar 2010, 12:43 am

I just beat off to the models (that I wouldn't get along with anyway for the most part) then date the cute, pretty, normal girls. There's a middle ground between homely and a model.



Kilroy
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03 Mar 2010, 12:47 am

true, I started coming here when I was 18...site did a lot worse for me then it ever helped
and the guys here need to spend some time in the real world to learn real workings
then can come back wiser, like I did
you'd not catch me dead making some moan thread or putting some lame profile in that dating thread nowadays



Hector
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03 Mar 2010, 10:19 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Hector wrote:
I'm not saying this is how people should be, it's how I am. I wish I could become attracted to women at will, that would be splendid.

For me it's not so much becoming attracted to women at will, as "mapping" my biologically driven attraction toward model-type girls (hot face, long hair, big breasts, slender waist) onto girls that are in my league. For a networking analogy, think of a DNS server (or a hosts file) that maps domain names onto IP addresses. For example, www,wamu,com leads to a website at 159.53.84.27. There is hacking technique called pharming, where you cross-map trusted domain names onto rogue IP addresses. For example, on a compromised DNS server, www,wamu,com will now lead to a fake website at 217.43.112.98 (fictitious address) that connects to criminal's database and steals your information.

I have the ability to "pharm" my brain in a similar way, thanks to the wonderful powers given to me by AS. I don't know single one of my friends (all NTs) who are able to do this. Instead of having the "I want her" response to a hot girl as "normally", I simply cross-map that same response onto a homely girl after she shows interest in me. It's not so much a matter of will, as simply having the reaction that already exists to a different person. And I'm sure my networking analogies explain it all pretty well. Feel free to post your thoughts on this.

I can't do this. In dating women that I'm not attracted to I would, at best, just be deceiving myself and ultimately causing more harm, drama and guilt on both sides. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of women that I'm attracted to (as I said, about half of my female peers) and they don't all have to look a particular way or whatever, as far as I can tell. There are also plenty of women that I really like and kind of wish I was attracted to because I get on relatively well with them, and if I was attracted to them I might have asked them out. As far as I'm concerned this is out of my control.



dtoxic
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04 Mar 2010, 3:07 am

hale_bopp wrote:

So you just assume women have an easier time and don't have the right to make suggestions to people? I have had terrible luck with dating and interacting with men in my life.

Id better shut up, I'm not qualified to have an opinion on serial moaners who don't even try, even if they're the same issues regardless of gender.


I do not assume women have an easier time. I don't know where you got that impression.
You absolutely have the right to make suggestions. Some of the ones you have made are practical and good. That was not my point.
My point is that women and men experience loneliness and rejection differently. Not that one is better or worse, but the flavors are different. Sound knew a bit of what I was getting at when he spoke of "different floor routines".
I am not qualified to speak for a woman who is experiencing the pain of loneliness. I have never been a woman. So I am reluctant to disrespect her pain by offering glib advice that might work for a man but would not be helpful to a woman. I don't know what to recommend to women. I am interested in their description of their own situation and point of view, but I understand it far less than a man's situation.
I have been in Toad's shoes. I spent a lot of time there. So I get a sort of sympathetic resentment, a defensiveness, when I see people bag on him and tell him to stop moping and improve himself. Again, the advice may be good, but I bristle a bit at the way it is offered - with an insufficient understanding of how hard those steps are for some of us to take, and how many of our own principles we have to compromise if we want results.
I should add, for those who haven't read my full story on other similar threads, that after decades of Toad-like behavior I grudgingly undertook certain changes: got on deodorant, got a couple of decent pieces of clothing, learned how to be phony to a degree, hit a couple of online dating sites. It was a pain in the ass. But it worked. I met an attractive woman who liked smart atheist artist guys. I was able to transition away from being phony and go back to being myself. I lost my virginity and we dated for nine months before breaking up.
It was worth the trouble. Therange, Hale-bopp, Sound, you guys are right that doing the work can be effective. I'm glad Toad is trying therapy. But I will permanently resent the need to be someone else during the connecting process, and I still do not count it as 'self-improvement' that I am a better liar now in word and deed when it comes to the dating game.



Sound
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04 Mar 2010, 10:00 am

dtoxic wrote:
I have never been a woman.
Try it one weekend, it's a trip! :lol:

dtoxic wrote:
Therange, Hale-bopp, Sound, you guys are right that doing the work can be effective. I'm glad Toad is trying therapy. But I will permanently resent the need to be someone else during the connecting process, and I still do not count it as 'self-improvement' that I am a better liar now in word and deed when it comes to the dating game.

...Here we go again...
Alright, dtoxic, I see that you're coming to this thought out of what seems to be informed experience, and not a kneejerk, "That's Just How It Is," kind of vibe. So seemingly, there's something to what you're saying here. BUT, once again, you have failed to illustrate how any of what we've suggested reflects being phony, pretending, or does not reflect ones' self. You're clearly smart, experienced, you know whats up, but at the same time it seems as if you're just flat out imagining that we imply something that, in fact, we do not.
Well, at least me, I can't really speak for the others, despite our agreements... I have trouble remembering what I said, let alone others. Heh.

So lay it out: What are we suggesting that is untrue to one's self? If you've got a point, then the ideas in question oughta be shot down or refined. But so far, I don't see the problem.



dtoxic
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05 Mar 2010, 12:58 am

Sound, the fact that you've read all I've posted and still haven't ferreted out my meaning causes me to believe that I have been unclear or haven't given enough of my background. You strike me as a sharp yet easygoing dude who's worth my time trying to explain this to. It'll take me a while though, a long and deep post, so lemme work on this. Gimme an hour or two.



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05 Mar 2010, 1:05 am

Perhaps one could consider it to be putting the best version of oneself out there instead of being someone you are not. Being yourself doesn't mean be stagnate and unwilling to continue to develop and have personal goals. Just a thought.


M.


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My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


dtoxic
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05 Mar 2010, 2:35 am

To understand how solid dating advice could offend me I guess you'd have to know more about myself, my self-image, and my worldview. Which is a lot to tell but I'll try for the nutshell version.
Basically I'm full of rage. That's not as scary as it sounds - I don't take it out on people, so feel free to laugh at how that sounded for an opener.
I started out as a precocious kid with some social deficits. This is the 1970's so AS wasn't on the radar. I was typical HFA aspie - high test scores, wildly variable grades (A's if I liked the subject, C-F otherwise), destroying everyone at Boggle and Scrabble but making few friends. Fast forward through highschool and two failed college stints: loner/geek, super shy around girls, blowing off my non-elective courses to light off homemade fireworks on the train tracks. Friends and family puzzled at the gap between my intellectual and artistic promise and the subsequent lack of achievement (by their definition). Feeling like a misfit, not knowing why, never lacking confidence at my specialties (art, music, chess & other games, chemistry). My high self-esteem - some would argue superiority complex - kept clashing with my complete failure to attract women. Due to what I now understand to be aspie sensitivities, I loathed soap and deodorant from an early age and boycotted them as soon as it was up to me. (I'm not a slob - I love taking 30-40 minute hot showers - but we all know what society thinks of omitting the bathroom products.) I used to argue with people about how deodorant was a sham, that cavemen didn't need it, that it was an artificial 'need' created by corporations who first sell you a problem, then sell you the solution along with the fear of being ostracized for not using their useless product. Obviously I got nowhere with anybody on this topic, even people who essentially admitted to me that they were brainwashed but bought the sham products anyway just to 'fit in'. I dismissed them with contempt and continued down my lonely road. When I heard some American tourists panning Europeans for their questionable hygeine, I schemed on moving to France but it never came off.
As the years and decades passed, filled with loneliness, some awkward rejections, and a whole lot of failing to even break the ice with women (over the fear of yet more awkward rejections), the schism between my high self-esteem and my failure to make headway in an area very important to me widened to an untenable degree. I saw with a cynical eye how the social system was rigged by and for alpha males. I watched desirable women ignore me in favor of these males, then complain about men. I knew I had a lot to offer a mate, but refused to participate in the phony salesmanship process, all the while expecting to meet someone 'real' who would like me for me, as I was, from minute one. (No deodorant? Guess which minute I kept losing the game in!)
The self-image schizophrenia continued. I jumped from one side of the gulf to the other. I tried viewing the phony sales tactics as mere pragmatism, and I can be extremely pragmatic. I would undertake a hunt for a deodorant that didn't bother me so much, spruce up my wardrobe (slightly), practice pickup lines. Two weeks later Mr. Hyde was throwing toiletries out the window and screaming indictments of the human race. I'd gloom and doom for months, surly, convinced that the dumb b*****s were getting what they deserved by spurning my potential. But they weren't dumb b*****s, they were women I found attractive and wanted to get to know better. So periodically I'd try again. Nothing.
Even into my thirties, I never really let go of the utopia I imagined, a world in which I didn't need to slather noxious chemicals in my armpits every day ; a world where real honesty was a valuable commodity, and men who tried to use women were easy to spot and put in their place; a world where the system was not so mercenary, set up to benefit those already on top. I knew with crystal clarity how unrealistic this fantasy was, and understood well that I could not change the world, only myself. But I loved myself for who I was, and I still do. I take pride in my talents and aspie differences.
But I still wanted to know what sex was like, how it would feel to have a girlfriend. So at age 38 I tried another go at the sales BS. More toiletries reluctantly purchased, more wardrobe updates, and a foray into internet dating. It worked. I met an attractive woman, got laid, dated her for 9 months, broke up, we're still friends.
I succeeded because I caved. I now line Colgate-Palmolive's pockets with my hard-won dollars. My pickup lines are slicker because I launch them in cyberspace with premeditation. I know now how to lie by omission, what not to tell somebody I just met. I own a few outfits I can be seen at a club wearing. But I still hate it all. I still hate Big Brother, I'm just faking it. I am not a better person for it - I just had to have a piece so bad that I abased myself to get it. A sacrifice of principles and some dough, and really a worthwhile one because now I know what it's like on the other side of that wall of virginity. It beats sulking in Toadville. But it cost me, and if I want to do it again it will cost me again. I've been single, celibate and not even trying since I parted with my ex last June, I have to gather the energy before I can go through that BS again. I'll do it eventually, but I'll still resent every minute.



therange
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05 Mar 2010, 3:20 am

I kind of understand you as far as the having to be a toned down version of yourself in public and not tell women certain things. The rest, I've always been a hygiene, fashion kind of guy. But yeah, I feel that too...luckily with the girl I met, there was no "faking" I was able to be me...unfortunately that's part of the reason (though not the whole reason) why it didn't work out and despite doing everything physical but sex, I'm still a virgin and am left with memories of a girl I genuinely liked and would have given my virginity too, not out of desperation, but out of attraction and interest.

And you're right. While I'm not in Toadville anymore, it's still a headache, only not as much of a headache and with potential benefits down the road.



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05 Mar 2010, 4:00 am

Kilroy wrote:
well thats a personal thing
but the first times are just to have fun, and a lot of people don't understand that


Thats probably because you can't just inflict your opinion on the rest of the world. Because thats what it is, an opinion, not a fact.