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Zara
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25 Nov 2010, 1:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Zara wrote:
Interesting.
I'd try myself but it's overcast today.

I'm still not going to rule out some kind of optical effect either from the camera's glass elements or an atmospheric effect.



You had best do so. Several billions of $$$$ of equipment in orbit that directly measure the particulate output sun have not detected a "second sun". In addition to which if there were a second Sun the earth would be orbiting about the center of gravity of the two "suns" not meandering in between.

ruveyn


Hence why I'm suggesting further experimentation with her camera.
I think it's most likely an optical effect and I'm curious how to duplicate it if it is indeed such.
I've also suspected it might a planet. I've looked up where the positions of the planets are right now in relation to the Sun and Venus, Mercury and Mars are in the dayside sky right now but they don't seem to be that close the Sun right now...
Antares is close to where the Sun is right now and it could be that too, perhaps getting a slight magnification from gravitational effect of the Sun as it's light passes near it.


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25 Nov 2010, 7:41 pm

Its not venus, I checked a map of the positions of the planets at the time I took the photo.

I am skeptical now since I watched the video explaining that it was a camera trick, and the fact that amatuer astronomers rarely report anything.



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27 Nov 2010, 9:59 am

It seems to be as bright as the sun but smaller.

It APPEARS to be very close to the sun.
It could be ( like many stars) an object far from the sun that just happens to be the same line of sight as the sun.

But since its only photographed at sunrise and sunset it must in fact be quite close to the sun. Along with venus and mercurey it would a third mourning/evening star.

Mercurey and Venus are "downhill" from the Earth- closer to sun than we are- so those two are only seen at sunrise and sunset. Earth would be a mourning star to a Martian.
So it must really be close to sun.

But this body is REALLY close to the sun. It doesnt just look close, it would really have to BE close to the sun to behave the way it does. It never wanders off to be seen in any other part of the sky. Its only photographed clinging to the sun's belt.

So it must be well within the orbit of mercurey which is some 30 million miles from the sun.

So this body just popped into existance within the year 2010.

It did not come into solar system from outside because if it had it wouldve been detected on its trajectory across the solar system long ago and it would already have been front page news for months if not years by now. They can detect comets and astoroids- so a planet sized body would be easy to detect. A small star with a surface as bright as the sun (which is what it appears to be) would be even more detectable.

A new small star just poped into existence like a mushroom- only a few million miles from the sun.

Not likely.

Ill go with the window pane theory.



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27 Nov 2010, 10:57 am

oh look..i am really sorry but..

Chronos wrote:
I think I have an explanation for your photos.

1. (The most likely) There is a bunch of bits of dust and debris in the atmosphere. Some fairly large bits, and even plastic bags, can get caught floating around, rather high up. When you look in the vicinity of the sun, the light reflecting off of these bits can sometimes make them appear as bright points of light.


the visual characteristic of the "second sun" displayed in the video is a completely spherical and unchanging identity. i do not think there is any possibility that it is a refraction of sunlight caused by swirling debris, as it is completely spherical and it does not move.

Chronos wrote:
binoculars (be very careful)
never look near the sun with binoculars. it is optical suicide.


Chronos wrote:
2. The planet Venus. It can occasionally be seen during the day if you know where to look. You can download a trial version of an astronomy program to figure out if that could have been it.


venus is a pinpoint of light compared to the sun. venus can only be seen when the sun has set.

Chronos wrote:
3. A nova/super nova. While it's not impossible..

it is impossible. if you are saying that it may be a supernova at a distance closer to the sun than our orbit, then it is ludicrous to surmise that a star that is capable of producing a supernova could possibly enter our solar system without eradicating all order.

our sun is not capable of becoming a supernova because it is not massive enough.
to suggest a star that is massive enough (and alive) has entered our solar system without our knowledge and exploded into a supernova close to the sun is a suggestion devoid of logic.

if you are saying that it may be a distant supernova that is outside our solar system, and it's present direction away from us is close to the suns direction away from us, then it would become visible in the night sky as we orbit the sun in the progress of our year.

the sun is much closer to us than other stars, and we orbit it. therefore, everyday, the "second sun" (supernova) would appear further and further away from our sun until it lit up our night sky with a brilliance of thousands of magnitudes of our full moon.

if it is visible during the afternoon before sunset with similar brightness to our sun, then when we are on the other side of the sun in our orbit, it would light up the earth with great luminance at night. there would be no night as we know it.

i can only determine what it is not. i can not determine what it is.

so sorry. i am tired and my social judgment is feeble.



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27 Nov 2010, 4:13 pm

very cool! :D



Chronos
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27 Nov 2010, 4:53 pm

b9 wrote:
oh look..i am really sorry but..
Chronos wrote:
I think I have an explanation for your photos.

1. (The most likely) There is a bunch of bits of dust and debris in the atmosphere. Some fairly large bits, and even plastic bags, can get caught floating around, rather high up. When you look in the vicinity of the sun, the light reflecting off of these bits can sometimes make them appear as bright points of light.


the visual characteristic of the "second sun" displayed in the video is a completely spherical and unchanging identity. i do not think there is any possibility that it is a refraction of sunlight caused by swirling debris, as it is completely spherical and it does not move.


Because the sunlight tends to reflect off of small points, on the particles, the light reflecting off of it appears as a point source. When the bright light enters the camera's aperture, which is circular, is is subject to a phenomena called diffraction. The diffraction pattern of light through a circular aperture is circular. Most small objects or distant objects emitting light, or with light reflecting off of it will look like a point or circle of light.

b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
binoculars (be very careful)
never look near the sun with binoculars. it is optical suicide.


It is only optical suicide if you actually look at the sun. There are various ways of blocking the sun, however. That we say never to point binoculars or a telescope near the sun is just a way to prevent those who are not sufficiently informed or careful of what they are doing from blinding themselves. However just as with setting off pyrotechnics and all other things with a substantial risk, it can be done safely.

b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
2. The planet Venus. It can occasionally be seen during the day if you know where to look. You can download a trial version of an astronomy program to figure out if that could have been it.


venus is a pinpoint of light compared to the sun. venus can only be seen when the sun has set.


This is not the case. Venus can be viewed during the day as is magnitude is sufficiently greater than that of many portions of the daytime sky. You may view this article for more information.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... g-the-day/


b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
3. A nova/super nova. While it's not impossible..

it is impossible. if you are saying that it may be a supernova at a distance closer to the sun than our orbit, then it is ludicrous to surmise that a star that is capable of producing a supernova could possibly enter our solar system without eradicating all order.

our sun is not capable of becoming a supernova because it is not massive enough.
to suggest a star that is massive enough (and alive) has entered our solar system without our knowledge and exploded into a supernova close to the sun is a suggestion devoid of logic.

if you are saying that it may be a distant supernova that is outside our solar system, and it's present direction away from us is close to the suns direction away from us, then it would become visible in the night sky as we orbit the sun in the progress of our year.

the sun is much closer to us than other stars, and we orbit it. therefore, everyday, the "second sun" (supernova) would appear further and further away from our sun until it lit up our night sky with a brilliance of thousands of magnitudes of our full moon.

if it is visible during the afternoon before sunset with similar brightness to our sun, then when we are on the other side of the sun in our orbit, it would light up the earth with great luminance at night. there would be no night as we know it.

i can only determine what it is not. i can not determine what it is.

so sorry. i am tired and my social judgment is feeble.


It would be a distant supernova or nova. There are no stars near us that will experience this phenomena any time soon. The visible light brightness from many novae only last a few hours, or a few days. Some of these novae are reoccurring.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093545.htm



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2010, 5:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

So this body just popped into existance within the year 2010.

.


Bodies to not just "pop" into existence. They come from something or somewhere.

ruveyn



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28 Nov 2010, 1:57 am

ruveyn wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:

So this body just popped into existance within the year 2010.

.


Bodies to not just "pop" into existence. They come from something or somewhere.

ruveyn



Have you ever heard of "sarcasm"?

That was obviously my very point!

Okay let me slow down and connect the dots for you.

If this thing were not an optical illusion but an actual celestial body that behaves the way that it appears to behave- then one of three improbable things have to have happened.
They are (1) it was always there ( by "there" meaning only a few million miles from the sun) and every astronomer from Galileo to the hubble telescope missed it for the last five centuries, but amatuers on Earth can see and photograph it, or (2) It just now entered the solar sytem from interstellar space which means it streaked across the entire radius of the solar system,and then settled into a circular orbit closer to the sun than even mercurey-all with out being detected, or (3) It just this year popped into existence out of a point in space a few million miles from the sun fully formed like Athena poping out of the head of Zeus.

That the last option is absurd goes without saying.

Which is why I said "im going with the window pane theory".
By that I meant that its too crazy to be real so it must be an optical illusion.

Have I connected every dot?

Actually: there is one more possibility- that this body somehow budded off the Sun- that is was a huge cloud of gass that recently got ejected from the sun and then formed into a spherical body of its own -closely orbiting the sun.

But that isnt very likely either because astromers keep tabs on the sun surface with every changing sunspots and storms and the like. So something that dramatic would not go undetected.



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28 Nov 2010, 10:20 am

Chronos wrote:
b9 wrote:
oh look..i am really sorry but..
Chronos wrote:
I think I have an explanation for your photos.

1. (The most likely) There is a bunch of bits of dust and debris in the atmosphere. Some fairly large bits, and even plastic bags, can get caught floating around, rather high up. When you look in the vicinity of the sun, the light reflecting off of these bits can sometimes make them appear as bright points of light.


the visual characteristic of the "second sun" displayed in the video is a completely spherical and unchanging identity. i do not think there is any possibility that it is a refraction of sunlight caused by swirling debris, as it is completely spherical and it does not move.


Because the sunlight tends to reflect off of small points, on the particles, the light reflecting off of it appears as a point source. When the bright light enters the camera's aperture, which is circular, is is subject to a phenomena called diffraction. The diffraction pattern of light through a circular aperture is circular. Most small objects or distant objects emitting light, or with light reflecting off of it will look like a point or circle of light.


i was tired and did not research thoroughly the incontrovertibly of my assertions. i do not know about the peculiarities of lens phenomena and i stand corrected. but i still think it is not a collection of floating plastic bags, although it is possible, however remotely, that it is given your reasoning.

Chronos wrote:
b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
binoculars (be very careful)
never look near the sun with binoculars. it is optical suicide.


It is only optical suicide if you actually look at the sun. There are various ways of blocking the sun, however. That we say never to point binoculars or a telescope near the sun is just a way to prevent those who are not sufficiently informed or careful of what they are doing from blinding themselves.

yes i know. if you are looking for venus in the daytime with binoculars, then it is likely you will have to search the sky (even if you know where to look) , and if you are not well prepared and vigilant, it is possible that you will inadvertently cop an eyeful of sunlight through the lens which is almost immediately devastating. it is not certain "optical suicide" but it is dangerous.

Chronos wrote:
b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
2. The planet Venus. It can occasionally be seen during the day if you know where to look. You can download a trial version of an astronomy program to figure out if that could have been it.


venus is a pinpoint of light compared to the sun. venus can only be seen when the sun has set.


Chronos wrote:
This is not the case. Venus can be viewed during the day as is magnitude is sufficiently greater than that of many portions of the daytime sky. You may view this article for more information.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... g-the-day/


ok. again i will accept that i was wrong. venus can sometimes be seen when the sun is in the sky, but it is when it is at close to or equal to 90 degrees out of phase with our orbit, and at those times it seems not as close to the sun as the image portrayed in the video.

venus can not be seen if it is at a point in it's orbit where it is in the vicinity of our line of sight to the sun because the sun drowns it out.

Chronos wrote:
b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
3. A nova/super nova. While it's not impossible..

it is impossible. if you are saying that it may be a supernova at a distance closer to the sun than our orbit, then it is ludicrous to surmise that a star that is capable of producing a supernova could possibly enter our solar system without eradicating all order.

our sun is not capable of becoming a supernova because it is not massive enough.
to suggest a star that is massive enough (and alive) has entered our solar system without our knowledge and exploded into a supernova close to the sun is a suggestion devoid of logic.

if you are saying that it may be a distant supernova that is outside our solar system, and it's present direction away from us is close to the suns direction away from us, then it would become visible in the night sky as we orbit the sun in the progress of our year.

the sun is much closer to us than other stars, and we orbit it. therefore, everyday, the "second sun" (supernova) would appear further and further away from our sun until it lit up our night sky with a brilliance of thousands of magnitudes of our full moon.

if it is visible during the afternoon before sunset with similar brightness to our sun, then when we are on the other side of the sun in our orbit, it would light up the earth with great luminance at night. there would be no night as we know it.

i can only determine what it is not. i can not determine what it is.

so sorry. i am tired and my social judgment is feeble.


It would be a distant supernova or nova. There are no stars near us that will experience this phenomena any time soon. The visible light brightness from many novae only last a few hours, or a few days. Some of these novae are reoccurring.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093545.htm


yes again you have thwarted my ill considered assertion.
but (i never go down without some resistance) if it was a short lived event of a few hours or days, it would not be bright enough to seem as bright as the sun when it is in a similar line of sight to us as the sun is.

it would have to be a supernova of epic proportions to be seen as bright as the sun next to the sun in our line of sight, and they take much longer than a few days to die off.

but i must make sure i am right before i start shooting blanks in future.
sorry.



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28 Nov 2010, 12:40 pm

b9 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
binoculars (be very careful)
never look near the sun with binoculars. it is optical suicide.


It is only optical suicide if you actually look at the sun. There are various ways of blocking the sun, however. That we say never to point binoculars or a telescope near the sun is just a way to prevent those who are not sufficiently informed or careful of what they are doing from blinding themselves. [/quote]
yes i know. if you are looking for venus in the daytime with binoculars, then it is likely you will have to search the sky (even if you know where to look) , and if you are not well prepared and vigilant, it is possible that you will inadvertently cop an eyeful of sunlight through the lens which is almost immediately devastating. it is not certain "optical suicide" but it is dangerous.[/quote]

There are ways of observing the sun safely. Like for instance, using a telescope to project the sunlight onto a white piece of paper rather than looking at it directly.



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01 Dec 2010, 3:35 am

It's likely a coronal mass ejection. This is an old article but it gives an explanation of the solar cycles that may make things more clear:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... solarback/

I have researched a bit and couldn't find any proof from NASA that there actually is a second sun. Hale_bopp, I can't really see anything other than the only one Sun in your photos. I have no clue how the video was made, but if there really was a second Sun, it would be possible to spot on any day near the Sun as shown in the video. Because since we don't have any sunlight during the night, it means that that second Sun would always be beside the main one.


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02 Dec 2010, 12:26 am

Thank you for sharing the video and the pictures with us. That does look like a sun to me.


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02 Dec 2010, 2:45 am

Utter nonsense. Please leave science to scientists.



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28 Jan 2011, 6:52 am

Holy f**k... this is exceptionally interesting, that you have confirming photographs of this. Just yesterday I found this video of the sun, taken from between the 23rd of November to the 26th of November (during the same time you photographed that)... I could of course not just assume it was true, as it easily could be faked, but it shows the same things that you have photographed, except in motion. My theory is that whatever is getting on the sun may be refuelling... yes, I do believe in the "paranormal" kind of UFO's/USO's... there is too much evidence for me to be able to not believe in them.

Here is the footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SE&clie ... sh=0&sfp=1



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28 Jan 2011, 10:25 am

Sloppy seconds topic

I have not seen the sun for three days, and I realize you people in the Southern Hemisphere are hogging all the sunshine, and now you have two cosmic mega heat furnaces!! !! !! ! Please share!! It is so gloomy in winter up north. :lol:


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28 Jan 2011, 10:47 pm

sartresue wrote:
Sloppy seconds topic

I have not seen the sun for three days, and I realize you people in the Southern Hemisphere are hogging all the sunshine, and now you have two cosmic mega heat furnaces!! !! !! ! Please share!! It is so gloomy in winter up north. :lol:


Instead of just ridiculing the original poster over details, why don't you check the footage that I linked to, that matches up with the dates she took the photos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SE&clie ... sh=0&sfp=1

After being sparked in interest on this, it appears that this is not the first time that something of this sort has happened. Those who do not believe in UFO's/USO's, what's your theory on what it is?