Joined: Sep 15, 2009 Age: 62 Posts: 8118 Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:49 am Post subject:
visagrunt wrote:
I don't want for a moment to suggest that you are not a fine, compassionate, well meaning individual. But I think you have been saddled with a task for which you are not properly supported.
WP is underserved by too few moderators who are expected to be all things to all people. Aspies might be better aware than most that such a thing cannot be.
I carry a card in my wallet ...
Quote:
Success
All of us are born for a reason,
but all of us don't discover why.
Success in life has nothing to do
with what you gain in life or
what you accomplish for yourself.
It's what you do for others.
_________________ I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
========================================
Each of us serves like a maid-mod
in life, keeping our own slates clean.
===========================
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:22 am Post subject:
Mark198423 wrote:
Wow, climb down from your high horse. The guy's a new moderator (not just LGBT as most moderators here do most forums) just trying to ensure he gets the balance right in the site's newest forum.
I stand by my original position. It is patronizing for an outsider to come in and defend the interests of a minority.
Let's change the perspective somewhat. Suppose that this was an Aspie forum on a general board. How would you feel about an NT moderator coming in to moderate the board? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many Aspie friends and relations an NT has, that person does not understand our experience the way another Aspie does. The same is true for LGBT people. (In fact, I think it's a mistake to lump G, L, B and T together, but sometimes we have to be fellow travellers).
As I have said, I have no doubt that leejosepho is a fine, caring, upstanding individual. I am sure that his questions are well meant. Indeed, were he not a new moderator looking for some sensitivity training I would welcome the question from an outsider trying to learn about us.
But an outsider who comes in to be the defender of our interests by combatting homophobic remarks and hate speech carries with it two implications, neither of which have been mitigated: first, it implies that we, as a community, require outside help to defend ourselves from those who oppose us, and second, it implies that one does not have to walk a mile in another person's shoes to understand their oppression. _________________ --James
Joined: Sep 15, 2009 Age: 62 Posts: 8118 Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:31 am Post subject:
visagrunt wrote:
I stand by my original position. It is patronizing for an outsider to come in and defend the interests of a minority.
I can personally accept you perspective and opinion there, but then who made that historical remark that " ...by the time they came for me, there was nobody left to help." _________________ I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
========================================
Each of us serves like a maid-mod
in life, keeping our own slates clean.
===========================
Wow, climb down from your high horse. The guy's a new moderator (not just LGBT as most moderators here do most forums) just trying to ensure he gets the balance right in the site's newest forum.
I stand by my original position. It is patronizing for an outsider to come in and defend the interests of a minority.
Let's change the perspective somewhat. Suppose that this was an Aspie forum on a general board. How would you feel about an NT moderator coming in to moderate the board? At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many Aspie friends and relations an NT has, that person does not understand our experience the way another Aspie does. The same is true for LGBT people. (In fact, I think it's a mistake to lump G, L, B and T together, but sometimes we have to be fellow travellers).
As I have said, I have no doubt that leejosepho is a fine, caring, upstanding individual. I am sure that his questions are well meant. Indeed, were he not a new moderator looking for some sensitivity training I would welcome the question from an outsider trying to learn about us.
But an outsider who comes in to be the defender of our interests by combatting homophobic remarks and hate speech carries with it two implications, neither of which have been mitigated: first, it implies that we, as a community, require outside help to defend ourselves from those who oppose us, and second, it implies that one does not have to walk a mile in another person's shoes to understand their oppression.
There's far too much 'us and them' in your post. What members of both AS and LGBT claim to want is equality and that is never achieved with such talk. The moderators have a duty to ensure the site's core rules are followed and I believe leejosepho is going a little beyond that so shouldn't be looked down on for doing so, I'm sure the same kind of questions will not be being asked once the forum has been going for a while.
I suggested that 'T' could warrent it's own section rather than being lumped in with 'LGB' in one of the posts about the creation of the forum so can see where you're coming from with that bit. We'd probably differ somewhat after that though.
Joined: May 05, 2010 Age: 30 Posts: 9726 Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject:
If you guys are uncomfortable with someone who's not LGBT moderating this forum; I have time & would be willing. I had gender identity disorder & went true a secret cross-dressing phase when I hit puberty, I questioned being gay before, & I feel kinda like a lesbian in a man's body. I'm kinda a mix of everything here but not hard-core in either extreme. Someone like that seems like a good choice considering this controversy _________________ For info about where I've been & what's up with me check this post~
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5105431.html&highlight=#5105431
Joined: Sep 15, 2009 Age: 62 Posts: 8118 Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject:
Mark198423 wrote:
The moderators have a duty to ensure the site's core rules are followed and ... leejosepho ...
Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding: I am no longer moderating on WP, yet I do still hope things go well here! _________________ I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
========================================
Each of us serves like a maid-mod
in life, keeping our own slates clean.
===========================
I "thought" it was done to not be attractive to the opposite sex and as a signal to attract the same gender who were interested. But when I saw butch and fem couples, I got confused. The first experience I had around lesbians was with two hairdressers one butch, one fem. They owned a shop together, broke up but remained business partners. I remember being able to accept the butch one more readily but saw the fem as a complete freak. Now, as a 50 year old woman, I feel ashamed for thinking that way and often hope that they are alive and well. I was 14 back then and started to respect differences at about 19. We are all human beings and it is appalling what we do to each other. Words, attitudes, gestures can really sting and take away someone's right to be happy.
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject:
leejosepho wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
I stand by my original position. It is patronizing for an outsider to come in and defend the interests of a minority.
I can personally accept you perspective and opinion there, but then who made that historical remark that " ...by the time they came for me, there was nobody left to help."
Most assuredly a fair comment.
But, I suggest that it is there to remind us to stand up and defend the defenceless--not to take the mantle to become defenders of those who are perfectly capable of defending themselves. _________________ --James
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject:
leejosepho wrote:
Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding: I am no longer moderating on WP, yet I do still hope things go well here!
When I posted that I believed that you were a fine, caring, upstanding person, that statement was perfectly true. Whatever displeasure that I have expressed about the site's approach to moderation, or to particular actions that you have taken, I hope that you know that none of the displeasure was meant to attach to you, personally.
Please accept my sincere apologies for thoughtlessness in what I have said to you, either publicly or in private. _________________ --James
Joined: Mar 01, 2012 Posts: 667 Location: Berlin, Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject:
Descartes wrote:
There are lots of gay men who are very masculine but are just more in touch with their feminine side than straight men, if that makes sense. Just because lots of gay men might take a lot of time with their appearance and have somewhat high-pitched voices does not mean that they're 100% feminine.
Yeah, I think it's that gay men tend to be less afraid of their feminine side.
This notion of 100% feminine or 100% masculine has always been misleading. _________________ EXPANDED CIRCLE OF FIFTHS
"It's how they see things. It's a way of bringing class to an environment, and I say that pejoratively because, obviously, good music is good music however it's created, however it's motivated." - Thomas Newman
Joined: Apr 25, 2010 Age: 26 Posts: 7028 Location: Mega City 3
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:55 am Post subject:
I'm bi and I have no idea what I act like.
Some lesbians are more feminine than me, some a more masculine. I like that. I think it's because I'm naturally attracted to more than one gender expression. I like that people can be who they are.
Nearly all the straight girls are more feminine than me. I suspect that's mostly natural, but partly social conditioning, too. I used to wear more 'feminine' clothes until my sensory issues got worse and I admitted to myself that I feel better in more comfortable clothing. There's more to masculinity/femininity than appearance. Just because someone looks butch, doesn't mean they always act that way. _________________ The mess has ended. Go home in pieces.
Joined: Jan 07, 2011 Age: 23 Posts: 14794 Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:54 am Post subject:
Well not all homosexual males act, talk or dress like girls the vocalist of this band doesn't:
I think as with every other type of people things vary between individuals. _________________ It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream.
I'm too tired to look at all the flames you probably got for this but one simple explanation is that some of us our wired like the opposite gender.
Whether you give 2D4D ratio any credit or consider the effects that hormones of have on the development of a fetus or not, men and women are wired in different ways and according to my fingers I'm wired like a man.
But I already knew that.
Also, some of us who are wired like the opposite gender don't act that way at all. I've been told my way of thinking seems "male" and am usually the weird one in a group of women but I am femme.
I won't even call myself femme, actually, because I don't care about any of that butch-femme BS but I am a feminine woman in appearance and always have been. _________________ AD/HD BAP.
