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SyphonFilter
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Joined: Feb 08, 2011
Posts: 2072
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Totally agree. Same goes for stuff like, "I forgot to do (insert task here) because I have ADHD". |
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Seph
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Joined: May 25, 2011
Posts: 406
Location: In a space station in orbit around Saturn
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| wefunction wrote: | | AS is never an excuse. It can be a reason why something is difficult but it's never an excuse not to achieve. I don't tell people I have AS. Only very few souls in real life know. |
Not everyone is as lucky to be nonobvious. People have a tendency to make their own judgments about things they don't know. I've heard everything from being arrogant for simply sitting by myself to accusations of sexual harassment. I've even had the experience of having the "demon of muteness" cast out of me. This was all before my diagnosis. I didn't know nor understand any of this and neither did anyone else. Today I have no problem explaining to people I'm trying to develop a friendship with the fact that I'm going to be a little odd and the reasons for it. I think it's unrealistic to assume people will automatically understand things. This doesn't mean I have a license to be rude to people simply because of my diagnosis.
| wavefreak58 wrote: | | This post strikes me as rude. |
Which is why I decided to play the devil's advocate. |
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wavefreak58
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Posts: 4412
Location: Western New York
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Seph wrote: | | I've even had the experience of having the "demon of muteness" cast out of me. |
Oh yeah. I've been prayed over like that.
WTF? I'm "oppressed" by evil because I don't conform to what ever you're own particular concept of truth happens to be? Jesus must really be impressed with your ability to pass judgment on the innocent.
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leejosepho
life student
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Age: 63
Posts: 8118
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| wavefreak58 wrote: | | Seph wrote: | | I've even had the experience of having the "demon of muteness" cast out of me. |
Oh yeah. I've been prayed over like that.
WTF? I'm "oppressed" by evil because I don't conform to what ever you're own particular concept of truth happens to be? Jesus must really be impressed with your ability to pass judgment on the innocent. |
| Quote: | | This was all before my diagnosis. I didn't know nor understand any of this [then] and neither did anyone else. |
@wavefreak58: I think ignorance was the bigger factor there, yet harm is still done either way.
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 10191
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I just ignore various exhortations to "never use your disability as an excuse." The idea of it is pretty vague and abstract to me, and the practical examples always seem to come down to something like "never use your disability to explain something, and you probably shouldn't ever mention your disability at all. Just to be on the safe side."
While this thread did not explicitly go there, I think a couple of responses have approached it or at least gone into orbit.
Anyway, I wouldn't give the advice in the OP to say anything that suggests that disabled people should be responsible for shielding others from the unintended consequences of their disabilities. It is sometimes (even often) true that sometimes one can't achieve something or one forgets to do something or whatever due to their disabilities.
What I would point out is that most people are assholes and will assume an honest explanation is an excuse because most people don't really understand that "disability" means a limitation on one's capabilities in some way, or they think it just means "You have to try a little harder." Or they think that mentioning actual difficulties and challenges you face is emotionally manipulative. I would suggest finding other ways to explain the situation that does not directly reference autism, ADHD, etc. Not because these are never valid reasons, but as a matter of self-protection from other people's ableist prejudices.
And sometimes it's downright appropriate to bring up. |
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Sweetleaf
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Well yes I would certainly agree that aspergers is not an excuse to be rude.....though I do have to mention a lot of times if I don't say what people think I should say they might take it as rude,there are some parts of social interaction I really just don't understand and have difficulties with. But yeah if I am legitimetly rude to someone it can't be blamed on aspergers it can only be blamed on me. |
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Verdandi
Miss Kitty Fantastico
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Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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If I am being deliberately rude, I don't want anyone to have the misapprehension that it was an accident brought on by my inability to read social cues or know the appropriate thing to say.
Why be deliberately rude and then pretend it was an accident? |
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wefunction
Christian Soccer Mom
Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 2486
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Seph wrote: | | wefunction wrote: | | AS is never an excuse. It can be a reason why something is difficult but it's never an excuse not to achieve. I don't tell people I have AS. Only very few souls in real life know. |
Not everyone is as lucky to be nonobvious. People have a tendency to make their own judgments about things they don't know. I've heard everything from being arrogant for simply sitting by myself to accusations of sexual harassment. I've even had the experience of having the "demon of muteness" cast out of me. |
One should not base one's experiences with insecure assh0les and religious zealots for an opinion on how the normal population responds to someone who sits alone or is quiet. |
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rabidmonkey4262
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Joined: Mar 09, 2011
Posts: 818
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's about how you're raised, not any type of anomalous neurological condition. There are people that use their AS as an excuse, but don't bother learn social skills. They forget that having AS also means you have a penchant for learning and discovering. There's no reason you can't take time out of your day to learn how to choke out a few niceties and attempt to codify a few social rules, even if it is nauseating.
I'm not naturally good at small talk and I find that systemizing social rules is arduous, but if it's the price I have to pay to function in school and work, then I'll figure out how to do it.
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. |
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| Dark_Lord_2008 wrote: | | "I have Asperger's" is no excuse. If a kid says something rude to you, you tell them why it was rude and why they shouldn't do that. If an adult does the same, and you rebuff them, and they just say "I have Asperger's, so I do that," then you tell them to go f**k themselves. If they say "oh, sorry..." then you accept their apology. People with Asperger's can learn social skills and not be a jerk. People can overcome it through effort and practice, so using it to excuse as*hole behavior is bullshit. |
It might not be an excuse but it is a fact. It could also be a fact and an excuse. |
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Joe90
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yer but sometimes Aspies be rude without realising it, because some find it difficult to tell between what's rude and what's not, and I think saying, ''sorry, I've got AS, please excuse me'', is a way of owning up and admitting that you were in the wrong. But intentionally being rude and using AS as a way to think you can get away with being rude is not appropriate. So it depends.
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Sweetleaf
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| rabidmonkey4262 wrote: | It's about how you're raised, not any type of anomalous neurological condition. There are people that use their AS as an excuse, but don't bother learn social skills. They forget that having AS also means you have a penchant for learning and discovering. There's no reason you can't take time out of your day to learn how to choke out a few niceties and attempt to codify a few social rules, even if it is nauseating.
I'm not naturally good at small talk and I find that systemizing social rules is arduous, but if it's the price I have to pay to function in school and work, then I'll figure out how to do it. |
Well actually there is more to behavior then how one is raised.....aspergers is still not an excuse to be rude or an excuse to refuse to even learn any social skills. However a lot of people with aspergers may not be able to behave completely normal so others are still going to know there is something different about them. |
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Joe90
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Posts: 8241
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Verdandi wrote: | If I am being deliberately rude, I don't want anyone to have the misapprehension that it was an accident brought on by my inability to read social cues or know the appropriate thing to say.
Why be deliberately rude and then pretend it was an accident? |
That's right too. I've never done this. If I've been rude without realising it at the time, I usually come to realise it a few moments after, then think, ''oops, I done it again,'' and I think some people can tell that you did not do it intentionally by the guilty look on your face after. But I have never thought, ''oh good, I have AS so I can be rude whenever I want.'' That is inappropriate.
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | rabidmonkey4262 wrote: | It's about how you're raised, not any type of anomalous neurological condition. There are people that use their AS as an excuse, but don't bother learn social skills. They forget that having AS also means you have a penchant for learning and discovering. There's no reason you can't take time out of your day to learn how to choke out a few niceties and attempt to codify a few social rules, even if it is nauseating.
I'm not naturally good at small talk and I find that systemizing social rules is arduous, but if it's the price I have to pay to function in school and work, then I'll figure out how to do it. |
Well actually there is more to behavior then how one is raised.....aspergers is still not an excuse to be rude or an excuse to refuse to even learn any social skills. However a lot of people with aspergers may not be able to behave completely normal so others are still going to know there is something different about them. |
I wonder, in my case, if I can really ever learn them and be a effective as an NT. I can learn rudimentary ones but I miss out on the all important subtleties. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | rabidmonkey4262 wrote: | It's about how you're raised, not any type of anomalous neurological condition. There are people that use their AS as an excuse, but don't bother learn social skills. They forget that having AS also means you have a penchant for learning and discovering. There's no reason you can't take time out of your day to learn how to choke out a few niceties and attempt to codify a few social rules, even if it is nauseating.
I'm not naturally good at small talk and I find that systemizing social rules is arduous, but if it's the price I have to pay to function in school and work, then I'll figure out how to do it. |
Well actually there is more to behavior then how one is raised.....aspergers is still not an excuse to be rude or an excuse to refuse to even learn any social skills. However a lot of people with aspergers may not be able to behave completely normal so others are still going to know there is something different about them. |
I wonder, in my case, if I can really ever learn them and be a effective as an NT. I can learn rudimentary ones but I miss out on the all important subtleties. |
Well I can communicate fairly effectively....but I don't get all the little details and then there are some things I understand but can't do. Like eye contact I understand it but I can't do it unless I know the person I am talking to. I can force myself but then I feel really uncomfortable and cannot follow what they are talking about. But yeah I am not intentionally rude to people and if I slip up and they ask me about it I might mention the AS, but I'm not going to bring it up. |
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