| abortion and capital punishment: your opinions? |
| pro-life; anti death penalty |
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13% |
[ 13 ] |
| pro-life; pro death penalty |
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9% |
[ 9 ] |
| pro-choice; anti death penalty |
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47% |
[ 44 ] |
| pro-choice; pro death penalty |
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29% |
[ 27 ] |
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| Total Votes : 93 |
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
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 Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I am more baffled about pro-small government people being happy with it given a license to kill.
I guess friendly fire is ok until it hits you.
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minervx
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 1101
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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taking an innocent life
taking the life of a person who has killed others - different
though i still oppose the death penalty on the grounds that it is inefficient |
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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minerv: Are you against killing flies?
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29300
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Your political opinions on abortion and capital punishme |
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| imbatshitcrazy wrote: | | your thoughts? |
Some crimes are worthy of being punished by death.
abortion is none of the government's business. It should neither prohibit or finance abortions. If women do not wish to bear children they can use birth control or abstain. If men do not wish to father children they can use birth control or abstain.
ruveyn |
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aelf
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Dec 24, 2010
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | aelf wrote: |
No, a person is on death row because they are thought to have committed murder. |
And many of them (but not all) have actually committed capital crime. As in any war, the war against crime will have casualties due to friendly fire.
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The pursuit of justice is not a war, you're only calling it a war to justify the murder of innocent people by the government with the "casualties" handwave. Capital punishment is not necessary, and the "friendly fire" isn't friendly because it doesn't have to happen. What's happening is, if it is acceptable to you that innocent people get killed by flawed pursuit of justice, is that actual justice is less important to you than the appearance of justice. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29300
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| aelf wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | aelf wrote: |
No, a person is on death row because they are thought to have committed murder. |
And many of them (but not all) have actually committed capital crime. As in any war, the war against crime will have casualties due to friendly fire.
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The pursuit of justice is not a war, you're only calling it a war to justify the murder of innocent people by the government with the "casualties" handwave. Capital punishment is not necessary, and the "friendly fire" isn't friendly because it doesn't have to happen. What's happening is, if it is acceptable to you that innocent people get killed by flawed pursuit of justice, is that actual justice is less important to you than the appearance of justice. |
There is a state of war between those who respect life and property and those who don't. Thieves are parasites and those who do violence for no justifiable reason are enemies of the human race. Wrong doing should not be forgiven or tolerated. What should not do is provide incentives for people to do wrong. Proper behavior should be rewarded. Bad behavior should be punished, and severely, if necessary. The war between evil and not evil has being going on since the human race emerged from it biological ancestors.
ruveyn |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| The unborn have done nothing deserving of capital punishment. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29300
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | The unborn have done nothing deserving of capital punishment. |
Yes. And the women is no slave that she has to bear what is within here if she can get rid of it (if she wants to). Besides deserving and not-deserving are attributes of persons and fetuses are not persons.
ruveyn |
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AceOfSpades
Deeds not words
Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Posts: 3647
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Vexcalibur wrote: | | I am more baffled about pro-small government people being happy with it given a license to kill. |
How many times do I have to say this?
Death penalty is a domestic security issue and last time I checked the government's two most basic roles are domestic and national security. So therefore, it doesn't overstep its own role. Get that through your thick skull already.
Last edited by AceOfSpades on Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iamnotaparakeet
Martian
Joined: Aug 01, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 25128
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | iamnotaparakeet wrote: | | The unborn have done nothing deserving of capital punishment. |
Yes. And the women is no slave that she has to bear what is within here if she can get rid of it (if she wants to). Besides deserving and not-deserving are attributes of persons and fetuses are not persons.
ruveyn |
I disagree with you on this matter. The unborn are still human life even if they are not by some definition "persons" yet, and they are human life which has not committed any crimes. People who have been born though have the ability to act and commit actions, such as murder or rape, which ought to be deserving of a death penalty both in terms of retribution and prevention of their future continuance in such actions. |
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Henbane
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2011
Posts: 6061
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I suppose I'm pro-life, but not necessarily in a political sense. I don't personally agree with abortion, for quite a few different reasons, but I wouldn't impose my views on others or call for laws against it. My general feeling is that it's not my business what other women do with their bodies. However I do find distressing the number of foetuses terminated because of their sex, or disabilites and so on. And I would prefer a lower limit for abortion, 24 weeks is too high, except obviously in the case of a woman's life being in danger.
I'm anti death-penalty. Because the state is often incompetent, and because I don't think it should kill its own citizens. |
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Philologos
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 6977
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Vexcalibur wrote: | | minerv: Are you against killing flies? |
That fly [according to one culture stream] may be your great grandmother. Who has a better right to bite you.
You have noticed, have you not, that most human beings - including the conceived but as yet unborn, are not flies? Nor lizards, nor mice. |
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Philologos
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 6977
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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A spade is a spade.
A rose is a rose is a rose.
A crapper by any other name would smell as sweet
Kitchener is very like Berlin, just a mite older.
Tell it like it is.
Killing a human is killing a human
Melanie's baby in the womb is just as human as Grampa with Alzheimer's.
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Humans always have killed humans, voluntarily or involuntarily, with regret or with glee.
Humans always will kill humans, voluntarily or involuntarily, with regret or with glee.
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Decide who you want to kill - include me if you like - and why you want or need to kill them [plural not as indefinite, but because no culture kills just one] and go to it.
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Just don't ask me to do it for you and acknowledge it for what it is instead of making up fairy stories like Johnny isn't human yet or Gorm is a monster. |
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Spazzergasm
Who Fanatic
Joined: Sep 16, 2009
Age: 21
Posts: 4415
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm pro life and anti death penalty. I don't think people have the right to take lives, as we've never given lives.
| ruveyn wrote: | | Yes. And the women is no slave that she has to bear what is within here if she can get rid of it (if she wants to). Besides deserving and not-deserving are attributes of persons and fetuses are not persons. |
She is not a slave. She's the caretaker of the fetus. Apart from rape, she put it in there herself, and it's her responsibility to care for it. If she is raped, she can put the baby up for adoption if she must. Just because a crappy thing happened to her doesn't give her the right to kill a human.
And if abortion is such a good idea, why do women often feel guilty and need to go to therapy after? Sounds like a natural warning that it's not good.
If deserving and not deserving are attributes of persons exclusively, are you saying that it wouldn't matter if we tortured animals or not? They're definitely not persons. So they don't deserve anything, maybe.
Fetuses are persons, anyways. What separates them from persons? Give me a list of anything you think could be used to distinguish them from persons.
what comes to mind for me is their mental development, consciousness, and size/age. Really, is that a justifiable difference? Do you think the extermination of retards or people in comas is acceptable? When does a size or age determine a person's humanity? Where is the line drawn between a fetus and an infant? Is it as soon as the baby comes out? Partial birth abortions are where the baby is dissembled just before it is fully out. Do you think this is right?
They have the same DNA as people. I don't see the difference. |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26033
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| I'm anti-abortion (apart from in extreme circumstances) and anti-death penalty. |
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