Straight Talk for Women on the Spectrum

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LovesMoose
Blue Jay

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Age: 42
Posts: 87
Location: Livermore, California

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject:

I really want this to be a place where we can share these things openly. Tomboy and everyone else ... getting a diagnosis is scary. I'm self-identified. I know how I think and feel and see the world, and I know how hard I've had to work to be where I'm at. How I present now, at almost 41 (this month!!) is radically improved compared to previous years AND previous months. My job (wish I could tell you where, but I'm not allowed) is amazing. This company embraces people like me. Several times I was ready to quit (my pattern) because I can't make things work and panic and leave, which is why I'm desperately broke (as always). But THEY didn't give up on me. And finally when I shared my self-diagnosis with my manager, the tides changed. This isn't always a good idea, but in my case it was the best thing I've done in a long time. Our conversation about Aspergers was incredible. She said she wondered if I might have something like that going on, and and from that point forward I've had very open conversations with her and some of my coworkers. To be fair about this I'm not going to attempt to diagnosis someone or instantly assume that the person who did the diagnosis is poorly trained, uninformed, and not qualified to diagnose adults. But a least some of that is possible, and so please continue to participate in this forum. Your voice matters. My childhood experiences certainly played a considerable role in shaping who I am. That's unavoidable. But when you look at my long 20-page list of notes I compiled when attempting to really explore Aspergers, there's a point where it can become very tricky attempting to disqualify four decades of this stuff on the basis of a screwed up childhood. Child psychologists will tell you how critical the first several years of life are in terms of our emotional and psychological development. And so she was staying true to her profession by taking that into consideration when diagnosing you. Extreme abuse can create behaviors -- and in turn experiences -- that might resemble those of someone on the spectrum. So the person conducting the diagnosis might approach things in a much more careful and conservative manner, which is understandable. However, this can also represent a source of possible bias. There seems to be a lot of discrepancy, and I feel that what someone is looking for in terms of obvious outward signs of a spectrum disorder may not be so obvious but still definitely a part of how we display Aspergers. Women in particular seem much more adapt at acquiring learned behaviors. There just doesn't seem to be much research on this or people who are "highly qualified" to diagnosis older adults. Someone who is "highly qualified" tends to deal more with children and young adults, and there's no way that someone in their teens or early 20s is going to outwardly display in the same "obvious" ways as they will later in life. Does the diagnostic process account for these things? There's a lot to think about. Please just know that you're welcome here. There are probably a lot of women who have self-identified that may not receive an Aspergers diagnosis. Ugh, time crunch ... must run. But this is triggering a bunch of questions that I want to research. Do keep posting here and reading updates to this thread. I guarantee that you're not alone with any of this. Carla

seaside
Snowy Owl

Joined: Jun 11, 2010
Posts: 162

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject:

Hi. I'm still getting through reading all the messages in this thread! Hadn't seen it in the past several days, so it will take a while. But- hi- 44, got model horses, animals my best friends, etc. Will respond more relevantly when finish reading what all of you said above. Here is something I made in the past that is more of an intro on my perspective- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPSSNKC9S7Q Meanwhile, glad to meet you. --seaside

LovesMoose
Blue Jay

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Age: 42
Posts: 87
Location: Livermore, California

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:11 am Post subject:

Hi Seaside ~ I watched your video during my break at work and couldn't stop laughing, and I mean COULDN'T. STOP. Your video is the cutest and funniest and charmingest (wow, spellchecker likes that word) thing I've seen in a long, long, long time. It's soooooooo adorable and fun, and it's also wonderfully insightful and inspiring. I love your intelligent humor and self-awareness and ... the reindeer and the ginger bread man and the records on the back wall and EVERYTHING!!!. The voices are also hilarious and perfect. How on earth did you create that? And why do you only have just over 400 views? This is really different and accessible and highly instructive. Accckkkk ... my cat's trying to pull the magnetic power supply off of my Mac. She's going to win, I can already tell. I'm heading over to your video one more time and hopefully will be able to watch it all the way through before she yanks the plug on me. Thanks so much for posting a link to your awesomely fantastic video!!! Carla Edited to add: Your antlers rock!! Love them antlers!!! This video is the absolute highlight of my rather stressful week!!!!!!!!

seaside
Snowy Owl

Joined: Jun 11, 2010
Posts: 162

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject:

Wow! Wow. Gee. Hunh! I'm glad. On the process: the animation software is from xtranormal.com. You can choose the voices and gestures and camera angles. So, I did not design the characters-- but I suppose I could draw a cartoon version . I'm so glad you 'get' it! Yay! I made someone laugh. Thanks! seaside

tomboy4good
An Equal Opportunity Annoyer
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 1608
Location: Irritating people everywhere

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject:

LovesMoose wrote:

I really want this to be a place where we can share these things openly. Tomboy and everyone else ... getting a diagnosis is scary. I'm self-identified. I know how I think and feel and see the world, and I know how hard I've had to work to be where I'm at. How I present now, at almost 41 (this month!!) is radically improved compared to previous years AND previous months. My job (wish I could tell you where, but I'm not allowed) is amazing. This company embraces people like me. Several times I was ready to quit (my pattern) because I can't make things work and panic and leave, which is why I'm desperately broke (as always). But THEY didn't give up on me. And finally when I shared my self-diagnosis with my manager, the tides changed. This isn't always a good idea, but in my case it was the best thing I've done in a long time. Our conversation about Aspergers was incredible. She said she wondered if I might have something like that going on, and and from that point forward I've had very open conversations with her and some of my coworkers.

To be fair about this I'm not going to attempt to diagnosis someone or instantly assume that the person who did the diagnosis is poorly trained, uninformed, and not qualified to diagnose adults. But a least some of that is possible, and so please continue to participate in this forum. Your voice matters. My childhood experiences certainly played a considerable role in shaping who I am. That's unavoidable. But when you look at my long 20-page list of notes I compiled when attempting to really explore Aspergers, there's a point where it can become very tricky attempting to disqualify four decades of this stuff on the basis of a screwed up childhood. Child psychologists will tell you how critical the first several years of life are in terms of our emotional and psychological development. And so she was staying true to her profession by taking that into consideration when diagnosing you. Extreme abuse can create behaviors -- and in turn experiences -- that might resemble those of someone on the spectrum. So the person conducting the diagnosis might approach things in a much more careful and conservative manner, which is understandable. However, this can also represent a source of possible bias. There seems to be a lot of discrepancy, and I feel that what someone is looking for in terms of obvious outward signs of a spectrum disorder may not be so obvious but still definitely a part of how we display Aspergers. Women in particular seem much more adapt at acquiring learned behaviors. There just doesn't seem to be much research on this or people who are "highly qualified" to diagnosis older adults. Someone who is "highly qualified" tends to deal more with children and young adults, and there's no way that someone in their teens or early 20s is going to outwardly display in the same "obvious" ways as they will later in life.

Does the diagnostic process account for these things? There's a lot to think about. Please just know that you're welcome here. There are probably a lot of women who have self-identified that may not receive an Aspergers diagnosis. Ugh, time crunch ... must run. But this is triggering a bunch of questions that I want to research. Do keep posting here and reading updates to this thread. I guarantee that you're not alone with any of this.

Carla

Hi Carla,

Ah I just wanted the DX more for validation than anything else. I am 99.9% sure I have AS. It makes too much sense...all the issues from lack of social skills, anxiety that has plagued me my whole life, lack of friends, the preference for being alone, along with my special interests over the years (some have changed & some have stayed with me), & other quirks for which there is no better explanation. I do not present like a male on the spectrum, & for that reason I feel I was unable to get my DX. My eye contact is too good, I have special interests but I guess they are both too normal & not obsessive enough, etc. My thoughts on AS have not changed.

I just find myself getting frustrated that I know what I know...have been studying Aspergers for several years now intensively. AS has become a special interest of mine & I probably know more about it being that I seem quite likely to be on the spectrum than someone who sees it as an outsider (even if said outsider is a supposed expert). But she doesn't seem to have it, so doesn't live with the challenges that I have had endured since my earliest days. She's also jused to identifying children & has had little experience working with adults, let alone a female on the spectrum. The DSM IV is flawed since the majority of the recognizable symptoms are those that are typically exhibited by males on the spectrum.

It's really easy to blame a lot of my issues on the abuse I've had to put up with. I learned to spend little time around either of my parents. I'm sure people saw me as wild or very nearly feral since I didn't have any great desire to be around people who liked hurting me. I had a strong desire to have friends, but my peers just saw someone who looked & acted like a freak, & so wanted nothing to do with me unless it was to bully & tease. Being that there was no safe place, it probably made me even more attractive to bullies. But I didn't have many choices about where I could go to feel safe...those places just didn't exist. So I turned inward, & lived a lot in my own head (I daydreamed big adventures & through my imagination had friends who cared about me). No one could hurt me there, & I learned to be quite content away from my too real tormentors whether they were parents, teachers, peers, etc. I also spent lots of time lost in books...the bigger, & more pages the better I liked the story. Would have loved if Harry Potter came out when I was in 5th or 6th grade....I would have been in heaven.

Tomboy
_________________
If I do something right, no one remembers. If I do something
wrong, no one forgets.

Aspie Score: 173/200, NT score 31/200: very likely an Aspie
5/18/11: New Aspie test: 72/72
DX: Anxiety plus ADHD/Aspergers: inconclusive

LovesMoose
Blue Jay

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Age: 42
Posts: 87
Location: Livermore, California

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject:

This Psychology Today article has been kicking around for several years, but it's a good read. "An Aspie in the City" This morning at work I was so hyper-focused on one thing that I neglected to do something I'm always required to do. So once again my supervisor had to remind me of this. My good work that I was very proud of was overshadowed by something I forgot to do. Frustrating. Tomboy, thanks for posting back here. This website feels like one of the the only places I have to go. Example: There all these people and loud noises and varying lighting that's circling around me right now. Although I can't often listen to music for very long, I have headphones on and the volume cranked to help me cope during my work break while I'm browsing the internet. I know I blend in and seem like everyone else around me, but as something else at work today reminded me, there's always that gaping ravine between myself and others. But somewhere in this crazy mess of people is probably somebody else on the spectrum, who, like me, as learned how to blend and decently cope. Hmm, interesting thought. I haven't thunked that thought before. (Oh, stop spellchecker.) Carla

Cormorant
Hummingbird

Joined: Dec 04, 2009
Age: 41
Posts: 22
Location: Rhode Island

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject:

Hi, I had to reply because this thread speaks to me. I am a 39 year old woman and it is good to hear from women around my age. I am hitting some personal issues that I don't think younger people could totally relate to. I am self identified but was amazed when I read about aspergers and how closely it fit me in every way. I have had severe difficulties relating socially my whole life. Before I had even heard of aspergers I started to try to teach myself social skills ( though it is embarrassing how old I was before some basic ones sunk in). For several years, I felt good about my trajectory. I could smile, make a little eye contact, control my meltdowns, make some small talk, dressed more attractively in an appropriate way. I was making an effort to be more social and get out and meet people. Then I gradually started realizing there is still something missing and I am really starting to loose hope. I am often desperately lonely but have lost that youthful optimism that kept me trying. I fight the urge to stay alone in my apartment when I am not at work. Have any of you come to the point of seeing what you cannot change in yourself and figured out where to go from there.

seaside
Snowy Owl

Joined: Jun 11, 2010
Posts: 162

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Then I gradually started realizing there is still something missing and I am really starting to loose hope. I am often desperately lonely but have lost that youthful optimism that kept me trying. I fight the urge to stay alone in my apartment when I am not at work.
Have any of you come to the point of seeing what you cannot change in yourself and figured out where to go from there.

If you figure out the answer, let me know! Confused

LovesMoose
Blue Jay

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Age: 42
Posts: 87
Location: Livermore, California

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject:

Great question! That's going to be a great one on the list I'm creating for this thread. I'm not sure how to answer it just yet, but I do know that I'm learning all the time and am feeling hopeful now that I have an Aspergers wrapper to help ground me and give me focus. Carla

cathylynn
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Posts: 2021
Location: northeastern US

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject:

in the words of winston churchill addressing orphan boys, "never give up. never give up. never give up." I went from no skill at the art of small talk to being average at it at age 52. should i have given up after 40 years of trying wtih no success? wouldn't have sounded unreasonable except for the importance of what i was giving up. also married for the first time at age 52. it's great and going on three years. i don't think i'll ever be barbara walters, but being capable of decent relationships is something worth not giving up on. in the meantime, get yourself a pet to satisfy your need for affection until you develop a good human relationship or so.

LovesMoose
Blue Jay

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Age: 42
Posts: 87
Location: Livermore, California

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject:

I'm going to be very honest here. Although I feel certain that I have Aspergers, there are some things that I've managed to mask well enough and to do through years of observing others that sometimes I wonder if I'm wrong about my self-diagnosis. I am making a concerted effort at not being excessively attached to this label/diagnosis. But even though I can manage small talk pretty well, I know where I've been and how hard I had to work (and still have to work) to make it sound natural and not forced. I keep reading about how people on the spectrum tend to have certain scripts memorized. I think many of us are just not aware that we're actually script reading, especially when you're older and have done it enough. But words tend to flow via a thick tongue. They often feel forced and clunky and I get really tangled up communicating with others. I see pictures that I'm trying to verbally and often don't know where to start. But at work the pressure is there to communicate clearly and without any hangups, so I push through. The result is often tangled and awkward. Again, as I keep mentioning, this may not be as obvious to others as I imagine it to be. Yesterday a manager was surprised when I told him that I am really struggling with one of my responsibilities. He had no idea and said I was doing a great job. So the masking and different things I have to do to make things come together is exhausting at times and something I'm highly attuned to, but others don't always/often know that I'm struggling and dealing with all of this. Carla

suebflorida
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

Joined: Aug 31, 2011
Age: 46
Posts: 5
Location: florida

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject:

i so totally understand where you are coming from carla. i have a mother who taught social niceties ad naseum to all of her 11 children. i beleive 2 of us have aspergers but she never realized we were so different and really needed her training whereas the others probably just picked it up through osmosis. when i informed my then husband ( 7 or 8 years ago) that i thought i might have aspergers and shared some links with him his only reply was that expalined a lot. it didn;t keep him from abandoning his wife and children ( first to drink then in reality) i have communication problems with my current fiance ( i think he has some aspie traits) for instance i can put myself in anothers shoes and work so hard not to hurt others feeling because of all my early training. he can't and ends up hurting my feelings all the time. i sometimes wonder if the realationship is worth fighting for anymore. these traits also caused me so much stress at work tho i doubt anyone was aware of the full depth of it. i'd turn myself on to go to work and act the way i was supposed to then come home mentally and physically exhausted and need alone time to recover enough to deal with my children. now i am unemployed and wondering what if anything i can do to support my family. its kinda hard when you have no real experience and you are middle aged with a family to support. at least i feel less alone here....... susan

mntn13
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Jun 07, 2011
Posts: 1006

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject:

Cormorant wrote:

Hi, I had to reply because this thread speaks to me. I am a 39 year old woman and it is good to hear from women around my age. I am hitting some personal issues that I don't think younger people could totally relate to.
I am self identified but was amazed when I read about aspergers and how closely it fit me in every way. I have had severe difficulties relating socially my whole life. Before I had even heard of aspergers I started to try to teach myself social skills ( though it is embarrassing how old I was before some basic ones sunk in). For several years, I felt good about my trajectory. I could smile, make a little eye contact, control my meltdowns, make some small talk, dressed more attractively in an appropriate way. I was making an effort to be more social and get out and meet people.
Then I gradually started realizing there is still something missing and I am really starting to loose hope. I am often desperately lonely but have lost that youthful optimism that kept me trying. I fight the urge to stay alone in my apartment when I am not at work.
Have any of you come to the point of seeing what you cannot change in yourself and figured out where to go from there.

Yes. (I almost feel like raising my voice to respond) Hang in there, sometimes it takes a looong time. I'm a bit embarrassed to say even years. Rolling Eyes

I have found it best to simply give in to the urge to be alone and really re-charge the batteries, even if it feels self indulgent or weird. Do stuff that you like to do, eat food you like, etc., and eventually good thinks/ things come bubbling up. Maybe a new, or old but refreshed pathway in life will suggest itself - it might be really subtle or not. Hope this makes sense. Smile

edited to add: Do be active even though alone. Of course all of this is imho.

Last edited by mntn13 on Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

LovesMoose
Blue Jay

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Age: 42
Posts: 87
Location: Livermore, California

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject:

Ha, good thinks. I like that one. Also, when I became a teacher a few years and had my own classroom, I bought a large magnet with that same Winston Churchill quote. Well, guess what. I gave up and now it sits on my refrigerator.

Cormorant
Hummingbird

Joined: Dec 04, 2009
Age: 41
Posts: 22
Location: Rhode Island

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject:

mntn13 wrote:

Cormorant wrote:

Yes. (I almost feel like raising my voice to respond) Hang in there, sometimes it takes a looong time. I'm a bit embarrassed to say even years. Rolling Eyes

edited to add: Do be active even though alone. Of course all of this is imho.

Thank you. I think one reason I find it depressing is that I am someone who always tries to solve problems. I always had so many external behaviors that made me different that I felt that I would eventually fix them and fit in better. I do take care of myself well and have hobbies ect. Maybe I am going through my midlife crisis Smile

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