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| Male circumcision |
| Wrong |
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73% |
[ 39 ] |
| Right |
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26% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 53 |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29328
Location: New Jersey
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 Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Obres wrote: |
No, their stuff - fgm or marijuana smoking for religious purposes, is NOT legally protected. |
Rest assured. Circumcision of infant males will be protected by law far into the foreseeable future. The last thing a politician wants is to screw up the Jewish vote.
1. Most very likely the legality of neonatal circumcision as part of a religious custom will remain legal.
2. If not, there is always the hospital ship SS Mohel hove to just outside the territorial waters. Circumcision will not be halted in either case.
ruveyn |
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Jacoby
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 4026
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: |
Which is precisely why folks like me intend to resort to lobbying and legal action to get circumcision banned! |
Dream on. You and your buddies are not going to get the repeal of the First Amendment.
You are wasting your time. And even if you succeeded, a short boat ride to a point outside the U.S. territory limit to the SS Mohel will deal with the problem very nicely. You and your anti-semite buddies lose again. Anything that can be done inside the territorial waters can be done outside the territorial waters. You lose.
When King Antiochus tried this stunt, he got a 30 year war that he lost.
ruveyn |
Right on ruveyn me and my family support circumcision because as christian's the main reason we get it done is because Jesus was circumcised.
This guy is very anti-semite it makes me sick  |
Are you Coptic, Ethiopian, or Eritrean Orthodox? |
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Obres
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Obres wrote: |
No, their stuff - fgm or marijuana smoking for religious purposes, is NOT legally protected. |
Rest assured. Circumcision of infant males will be protected by law far into the foreseeable future. The last thing a politician wants is to screw up the Jewish vote.
1. Most very likely the legality of neonatal circumcision as part of a religious custom will remain legal.
2. If not, there is always the hospital ship SS Mohel hove to just outside the territorial waters. Circumcision will not be halted in either case.
ruveyn |
Yes, it's likely an exception will be made. But circumcision is already wavering in support among secular and reform Jews, and will likely start to decline rapidly in the coming generations. Once it loses popular support with mainstream Jews it will be seen as fgm is now - a barbaric practice only being held onto by marginal religious sects. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacoby wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: |
Which is precisely why folks like me intend to resort to lobbying and legal action to get circumcision banned! |
Dream on. You and your buddies are not going to get the repeal of the First Amendment.
You are wasting your time. And even if you succeeded, a short boat ride to a point outside the U.S. territory limit to the SS Mohel will deal with the problem very nicely. You and your anti-semite buddies lose again. Anything that can be done inside the territorial waters can be done outside the territorial waters. You lose.
When King Antiochus tried this stunt, he got a 30 year war that he lost.
ruveyn |
Right on ruveyn me and my family support circumcision because as christian's the main reason we get it done is because Jesus was circumcised.
This guy is very anti-semite it makes me sick |
Are you Coptic, Ethiopian, or Eritrean Orthodox? |
None of the above my best friend is Jewish besides what does that have to do with anything?
The point is if you can not debate is a civil matter then don't debate at all. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29328
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Obres wrote: |
Yes, it's likely an exception will be made. But circumcision is already wavering in support among secular and reform Jews, and will likely start to decline rapidly in the coming generations. Once it loses popular support with mainstream Jews it will be seen as fgm is now - a barbaric practice only being held onto by marginal religious sects. |
A reform Jew is a Jew that has never been mugged by an Antisemite. Wait until the going gets rough again for Jews, then you will see the true blood of Abraham assert itself. I have little doubt 200 years from now most Jews will still have their male infant sons circumcised.
You may call it barbaric, but it is one of the reasons Jews have been around for 3000 years. Where is Imperial Rome? Nowhere. Where are the Jews? Everywhere but not in great numbers.
Tradition!...... Tradition!
ruveyn
ruveyn |
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Obres
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1431
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: |
A reform Jew is a Jew that has never been mugged by an Antisemite.
ruveyn |
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puddingmouse
exclamation mark!
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7074
Location: Mega City 3
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Where is Imperial Rome? |
Vatican City, Poland, Ireland, Mexico, The Philippines, Portugal, Brazil, Southern Germany, Italy and Spain until recently, France up until the revolution, the whole of Latin American in general.
Ave! 
_________________
I'm as ugly as sin and twice as sweet. |
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Jacoby
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 4026
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Jacoby wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: |
Which is precisely why folks like me intend to resort to lobbying and legal action to get circumcision banned! |
Dream on. You and your buddies are not going to get the repeal of the First Amendment.
You are wasting your time. And even if you succeeded, a short boat ride to a point outside the U.S. territory limit to the SS Mohel will deal with the problem very nicely. You and your anti-semite buddies lose again. Anything that can be done inside the territorial waters can be done outside the territorial waters. You lose.
When King Antiochus tried this stunt, he got a 30 year war that he lost.
ruveyn |
Right on ruveyn me and my family support circumcision because as christian's the main reason we get it done is because Jesus was circumcised.
This guy is very anti-semite it makes me sick |
Are you Coptic, Ethiopian, or Eritrean Orthodox? |
None of the above my best friend is Jewish besides what does that have to do with anything?
The point is if you can not debate is a civil matter then don't debate at all. |
Besides those denominations there is no tradition of circumcision. Christians aren't required to be circumcised much like they're not required to observe Jewish dietary laws. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacoby wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Jacoby wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | AspieRogue wrote: |
Which is precisely why folks like me intend to resort to lobbying and legal action to get circumcision banned! |
Dream on. You and your buddies are not going to get the repeal of the First Amendment.
You are wasting your time. And even if you succeeded, a short boat ride to a point outside the U.S. territory limit to the SS Mohel will deal with the problem very nicely. You and your anti-semite buddies lose again. Anything that can be done inside the territorial waters can be done outside the territorial waters. You lose.
When King Antiochus tried this stunt, he got a 30 year war that he lost.
ruveyn |
Right on ruveyn me and my family support circumcision because as christian's the main reason we get it done is because Jesus was circumcised.
This guy is very anti-semite it makes me sick |
Are you Coptic, Ethiopian, or Eritrean Orthodox? |
None of the above my best friend is Jewish besides what does that have to do with anything?
The point is if you can not debate is a civil matter then don't debate at all. |
Besides those denominations there is no tradition of circumcision. Christians aren't required to be circumcised much like they're not required to observe Jewish dietary laws. |
I am a judeo christian who attends a methodist church  |
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lilypadfad
Toucan
Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Age: 24
Posts: 297
Location: banned :(
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Reference to a properly constructed poll and sampling please.
ruveyn |
Ok , I didn't look that hard hehe. I found that tidbit on a jewish-run anti-circumcision site, it's repeated quite frequently on other jewish-run anti-circumcision websites. I found this community from Israel of all places http://www.kahal.org/ who leave their sons intact. I came across a book called "Questioning circumcision: A Jewish perspective". It looks like a sizeable minority to me, not just one or two lone nutters.
Here's something else I found on one of those sites http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/
| Quote: | Traditions
Judaism is a fluid religion that has been subject to change as it meets challenges and reaches new and better understandings. This is shown with the advent of non-traditional ceremonies, like Bat Mitzvah, and other significant changes to advance the roles of females including the ordination of women rabbis, chazzans and shamases.
Jews say that circumcision is tradition. The following are also "traditions" and they are among the actions punishable by death according to the Torah:
Cheating on your husband, (Lev. 20:10).
Fornicating - if you’re female (Deut 22:21).
Homosexuality (Lev. 20:13).
Blasphemy (Lev. 24:16)
Insulting one’s parents (Exod. 21:17)
Disobeying one’s parents (Deut 21:18-21
Obviously, we no longer apply capitol punishment for committing the above mentioned acts because we are no longer a primitive society and we have come to believe in human rights. Other practices sanctioned by the Torah that we no longer do because we are educated and enlightened are:
Slavery (Exod 21:1-11) (Deut. 15:12-18 )
Animal and Human Sacrifices (Lev. 4:3, 4:23, 4:32, 5:7, 5:15; Judges 11:20, 11:33)
Divorce for men only (Deut 24:1)
Female subservience to men including obedience to every order and no right to refuse sex, (Genesis 3:16). |
Relevant perhaps? People here have already stated that freedom of religion does not allow you to harm others or infringe on another's rights. While harm is up for debate, performing an irreversible procedure like that on a boy who cannot consent is most definitely an infringement of his rights.
_________________
Crom is a grim, gloomy and unforgiving god, ever watching from atop his mountain in dark clouds and obscuring mists, ready to pass disapproving judgment on any and all. But he is said to value courage and tenacity in mortals, even if they ultimately fail. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29328
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lilypadfad wrote: |
Relevant perhaps? People here have already stated that freedom of religion does not allow you to harm others or infringe on another's rights. While harm is up for debate, performing an irreversible procedure like that on a boy who cannot consent is most definitely an infringement of his rights. |
Since when is an action (taken when it is easiest and safest to do) infringing on rights? Jews have been sparing their male children the danger of cancer of the glans penis and the curse of smegma for three thousand years. Some infringement of rights that is.
ruveyn |
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Lecks
Face Romancer
Joined: May 12, 2009
Age: 26
Posts: 4987
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | lilypadfad wrote: |
Relevant perhaps? People here have already stated that freedom of religion does not allow you to harm others or infringe on another's rights. While harm is up for debate, performing an irreversible procedure like that on a boy who cannot consent is most definitely an infringement of his rights. |
Since when is an action (taken when it is easiest and safest to do) infringing on rights? Jews have been sparing their male children the danger of cancer of the glans penis and the curse of smegma for three thousand years. Some infringement of rights that is.
ruveyn |
It's been repeatedly pointed out that this is incorrect. Circumcision does not prevent penile cancer and smegma is not an issue when proper personal hygiene is maintained.
This is an action that takes away a person's choice from a mostly optional (bar medical needs) and irreversible procedure.
_________________
Chances are, if you're offended by something I said, it was an attempt at humour. |
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lilypadfad
Toucan
Joined: Aug 16, 2010
Age: 24
Posts: 297
Location: banned :(
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh here we go again.
- Smegma is not a problem for those with proper hygiene.
- Penile cancer is incredibly rare, even rarer among boys under 18 no? Not to mention the evidence for the reduction is risk is questionable at best.
- Later life circumcisions are RELATIVELY less safe and less easy. But all in all it's still a very safe procedure, certainly much safer than other cosmetic procedures, not a good reason to do it against the kids will.
- Irreversibly chopping off a functional body part for anything other than correcting a serious dysfunction of the penis should always ALWAYS be the choice of the owner of said penis and maybe not even then.
_________________
Crom is a grim, gloomy and unforgiving god, ever watching from atop his mountain in dark clouds and obscuring mists, ready to pass disapproving judgment on any and all. But he is said to value courage and tenacity in mortals, even if they ultimately fail. |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Lecks wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Lecks wrote: | | Joker, I'm going to ask that you stop invoking Godwin's Law, AspieRogue is adressing Ruveyn's comments by being facetiously provocative. Your oversensitivity isn't helping the situation. |
AspieRouge is being facetiously provocative by saying Mr. Kike |
Yes, your confusion is understandable. Now you know.
| ruveyn wrote: | And both legally protected.
ruveyn |
The religion I just joined dictates I must lop off the hands of my enemies and wear a necklace of their fingernails around my neck. It's good to know I can practice my religion under legal protection in the USA. |
My half sister is a Jew we have the same father but not the same mother so it's ok to use racial slurs? |
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