Teenagers on the spectrum hating authority

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DerStadtschutz
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24 Dec 2011, 12:29 pm

But of course they are, Verdandi. Actually, EVERYONE is supposed to, regardless of being autistic or not, because if they don't, people might realize that authority figures are actually full of s**t.



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24 Dec 2011, 1:12 pm

Don't all people hate authority - especially the government. In the UK the only people who love David Cameron are the stinkin' rich. I think.


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24 Dec 2011, 1:20 pm

You know, sometimes you have to just do what needs to be done, regardless of Autism or any disorder.

When you first started this thread, it was only about problems with authority figures, but then just a few posts down, violence comes into play. From what I understand, he's trying to engage you violently? If it's just a problem with respecting authority, that's one thing. If he's engaging in violence, that's a game changer.

One of my sons become violent, at around the age of ten or eleven. He started fighting teachers who were trying to remove him from the class, and even ran up to his principle and started hitting her.

The minute I heard about it, I got hold of a local police sergeant I knew from a previous job, and arranged for my son to visit him and tour the police station to get a real sense of what could happen if he didn't cut it out. The sergeant took him into the booking room, showed him the cells (there wasn't anybody in them at the time), then stood there for fifteen minutes talking to him about his job, and what arrested people have to go through when they're in there. You could practically see my son's skin crawling.

The message he got was clear. Violence is not tolerated. Period. Not by society, and not by me. He knew by the end of the day he had two choices. Knock it off or deal with the consequences. I will protect my kids from anything or anyone threatening them, but I will not protect them from the consequences of their own violent behaviors. That's a safety issue plain and simple. If they are a threat to society, it doesn't matter why. The threat must be dealt with.

The idea was not to throw him to the wolves. The idea was to be certain he fully understood the consequences of his actions. If he had become violent again after visiting the jail, I would have tossed him into therapy instantly. As it happens, he was already in therapy, and later on we discovered he'd been experiencing PTSD from something we hadn't known had happened to him.

Those are the two things I would do.

How old is he though?

He needs to be seeing a therapist for one thing. For another, and a therapist can help with this, violence combined with hatred for authority, if it's a new thing all of a sudden, has to be coming from somewhere. This sounds like a lot more then simple teenage lack of respect. It also sounds like a lot more than Autism. It sounds an awful lot like there's a lot more to this story. Divorce? Separation? Bullying? Something. Whatever it is, you need to get to the bottom of it, and quick, before this escalates.


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24 Dec 2011, 1:59 pm

MrXxx wrote:
You know, sometimes you have to just do what needs to be done, regardless of Autism or any disorder.

When you first started this thread, it was only about problems with authority figures, but then just a few posts down, violence comes into play. From what I understand, he's trying to engage you violently? If it's just a problem with respecting authority, that's one thing. If he's engaging in violence, that's a game changer.

One of my sons become violent, at around the age of ten or eleven. He started fighting teachers who were trying to remove him from the class, and even ran up to his principle and started hitting her.

The minute I heard about it, I got hold of a local police sergeant I knew from a previous job, and arranged for my son to visit him and tour the police station to get a real sense of what could happen if he didn't cut it out. The sergeant took him into the booking room, showed him the cells (there wasn't anybody in them at the time), then stood there for fifteen minutes talking to him about his job, and what arrested people have to go through when they're in there. You could practically see my son's skin crawling.

The message he got was clear. Violence is not tolerated. Period. Not by society, and not by me. He knew by the end of the day he had two choices. Knock it off or deal with the consequences. I will protect my kids from anything or anyone threatening them, but I will not protect them from the consequences of their own violent behaviors. That's a safety issue plain and simple. If they are a threat to society, it doesn't matter why. The threat must be dealt with.

The idea was not to throw him to the wolves. The idea was to be certain he fully understood the consequences of his actions. If he had become violent again after visiting the jail, I would have tossed him into therapy instantly. As it happens, he was already in therapy, and later on we discovered he'd been experiencing PTSD from something we hadn't known had happened to him.

Those are the two things I would do.

How old is he though?

He needs to be seeing a therapist for one thing. For another, and a therapist can help with this, violence combined with hatred for authority, if it's a new thing all of a sudden, has to be coming from somewhere. This sounds like a lot more then simple teenage lack of respect. It also sounds like a lot more than Autism. It sounds an awful lot like there's a lot more to this story. Divorce? Separation? Bullying? Something. Whatever it is, you need to get to the bottom of it, and quick, before this escalates.


I second this advice.....try to get him to understand the consequences of behaving violently, and maybe get him into therapy so the therapist can help him find healthier ways to deal with his frustration other than violence.


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pete1061
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24 Dec 2011, 2:07 pm

Having grown up in the 70's at the tail end of the hippie era, I was raised with the philosophy of "Question Authority".

Anyone who just blindly bows to any authority without question is a fool.


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Verdandi
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24 Dec 2011, 2:17 pm

I think MrXxx has it right.



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24 Dec 2011, 2:36 pm

I was defiantly never a rebel but I did have problems with some authority figures due to my AS & other issues that they were not aware of & certainly did not understand. I felt they were very controlling, not letting me be myself & expected things from me that I could not deliver(like certain type of behavior). Perhaps your son is having issues getting along with authority figures he interacts with(like teachers & principals) & he's ticked-off with all authority in general as a result. I think educating the authority figures he deals with about his AS &; as well as educating your son about why he has problems with authority due to his AS would be a big help


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24 Dec 2011, 2:55 pm

My son is 13yrs old there is no divorce, or problems at home, issues at school. What I meant was that he seems to think that violence is the way to sort out disputes. Not sure if he is misunderstanding or seeing this is how pupils in his school sort issues out. He hates the police etc he has no reason I always have told him if in any trouble and I am not around he goes to the police the usual you would say to a child. Again not sure if he is picking this up from school and just teenage talk to look cool etc but he believes that is the way to behave. He takes everything literal, black and white thinking etc.


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24 Dec 2011, 3:05 pm

Annmaria wrote:
My son is 13yrs old there is no divorce, or problems at home, issues at school. What I meant was that he seems to think that violence is the way to sort out disputes. Not sure if he is misunderstanding or seeing this is how pupils in his school sort issues out. He hates the police etc he has no reason I always have told him if in any trouble and I am not around he goes to the police the usual you would say to a child. Again not sure if he is picking this up from school and just teenage talk to look cool etc but he believes that is the way to behave. He takes everything literal, black and white thinking etc.


Well it seems like he has more of an issue with maybe anger regulation and violence, not so much an issue with authority. I mean I dislike authority in general due to my experiances with it but I am pretty non-violent and always have been. Also how sure are you he does not have issues at school? sometimes kids don't tell you everything going on at school.

And have you tried getting him into any therapy? because that could help him learn heathier ways of dealing with how he feels.


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Annmaria
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24 Dec 2011, 3:11 pm

sorry I meant he does have issues at school, I am aware of them working on them.


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24 Dec 2011, 3:20 pm

Well is he being bullied?.......and how do the teachers and school staff handle it if that is the case? If it is maybe he feels like he's being mistreated and is fed up so he feels like violence would solve it. I know when I was a kid and got bullied and such sometimes the teachers would be in on it or they would not belive me because why would one of their good students ever do anything wrong. I can see how that would cause frustration.

So yeah it might be something like that......I mean if that's the case he might feel like 'authority' figures except him to just take all the crap and not react to it which is likely to make him feel misunderstood and frustrated..and can sometimes contribute to violent behavior but I am no expert and I am not sure its bullying or anything like that which is the problem.


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Annmaria
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24 Dec 2011, 3:33 pm

He has a couple of one incidents of bullying and we have talk it through and spoke with the school and they were dealt with.

He has said that the teachers are bullying him i wrote a letter of complaint to the school will meet with principal after holidays. I have spoken to him but not getting enough information other than he is been singled out. He knows that any issues like this that I will contact the school straight away and this behaviour is not acceptable and he does and can speak with me or his Dad sometimes he will not always tell straight away but does eventually.

I also feel that he is misunderstanding his peers and believes what they are saying when its all just talk. Wondering how to get him to understand its teenage bs.


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24 Dec 2011, 3:41 pm

Annmaria wrote:
He has a couple of one incidents of bullying and we have talk it through and spoke with the school and they were dealt with.

He has said that the teachers are bullying him i wrote a letter of complaint to the school will meet with principal after holidays. I have spoken to him but not getting enough information other than he is been singled out. He knows that any issues like this that I will contact the school straight away and this behaviour is not acceptable and he does and can speak with me or his Dad sometimes he will not always tell straight away but does eventually.

I also feel that he is misunderstanding his peers and believes what they are saying when its all just talk. Wondering how to get him to understand its teenage bs.



What do you think he is believing exactly that is just talk?....I mean maybe that is the case but maybe what your talking about was not meant as just teenage bs. But yeah I guess I would see how the school responds to your letter and if major problems like that continue I would consider switching schools if at all possible.

As for the violence has he actually hurt anyone? Or does he just talk about it or is facinated with it?

Also I think earlier you mentioned he is in sports.......how does that go for him? does he like being in the sports and does he have any problems in them?


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24 Dec 2011, 3:46 pm

pete1061 wrote:
Having grown up in the 70's at the tail end of the hippie era, I was raised with the philosophy of "Question Authority".

Anyone who just blindly bows to any authority without question is a fool.


I grew up in the 60"s and 70's, and I totally agree with you Pete, but there's very big difference between questioning authority and violence associated with attitude toward authority. I did see you say that you abhor violence. I'm just reiterating.

@Annamaria: when you said "...my son I have talked about before is obsessed with violence he tries to get me to engage I am seeking advice," did you mean that he is trying to engage you violently, or anyone else, or does he just talk violence like he's blowing off steam?

I wasn't sure when I made my gave my first reply. I was posting based on worst case scenario. The way you phrased that, it's kind of hard to tell if he's actually engaging anyone violently. If he is, I stand on my original advice. Taking him to the police station might not work though, given his attitude toward the police. It worked with my son because he's always respected the police (sometimes a little too much trust in them IMHO TBH). That may not work with your son. I was just related what I did as an idea of the "life is what it is whether you like it or not" philosophy that a lot of Autistic kids need a wake up call to. I know I did. I'm not sure how you should approach that concept with your son, but it's definitely something it seems he needs to learn, before he learns it the hard way, which would be hard for both him and you.

If there isn't anything you can point to as an obvious catalyst for his attitude, he could be picking it up from associations with other kids at school. It's kind of hard to know how to deal with it without having some idea of where the attitude is coming from or why. It is possible he's developed it on his own. My brother in law, who was ten when I first met him (he's in his late twenties now), wanted to be a police officer. By his late teens his attitude toward them changed to one of mild disgust and disrespect, probably because he used to ride his bike all over town at night, would notice things he didn't think seemed quite right, stop and talk to them about them, and was pretty much dismissed. Later, he was stopped and questioned a few times by a couple of officers who I guess were not very respectful of him. I suppose they just assumed he was a trouble maker out at odd hours. The total change in his attitude toward them was marked and surprising. He has Asperger Syndrome.

Has your son ever had any encounters with police? Even as innocent as a conversation with them during a school visit or something like that? It's not unusual for AS kids, especially AS teens to not remember the experiences favorably even when it's just an informal encounter.

Does he read? What kind of books? That's another place he could be picking it up. TV shows? Movies? Our ideas usually develop with some influence from somewhere.

I'm just stabbing in the dark. Having some idea of where it might be coming from would help, even if the ultimate answer is that it's all coming from within his own mind and thinking.


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24 Dec 2011, 4:50 pm

If he's just starting to notice 'corruption' w.r.t. authority... (sorry, my brain is kind of fried, ATM, so I don't know if I can get my thought out, here...)

People tend to abuse authority and apply it differently according to 'who you are.' If, stereotypically, the captain of the football team bullies people, authorities will usually not notice and won't care (or will be afraid to; Jerry Sandusky) -- but as soon as you defend yourself you get punished for being 'out of line' (which really means that you stepped outside of your social position). Combine that with a black-and-white sense of morality and egalitarianism and you can end up being someone with a tremendous sense of outrage. And what can make it even worse is when no one cares about the corruption, let alone the bullying.

I never got in trouble with the law (or had problems with violence -- though I did think about it a lot), so maybe my point is not relevant, but the above is how it was for me. "Corruption" actually became a special interest, and I think it helped me understand power, authority, social status, and human behavior better. I never was and never have been disrespectful to authorities, but mostly because I fear the potential irrationality and lack of integrity (not being able to generate the right non-verbal signals also makes it more risky).

If the above is his view, then maybe try to find some examples of authorities who went beyond the call of duty to do the right thing. I.e. a cop who jumps into a raging river to save someone (they are not legally obligated to do that). I was also going to say the movie "Copland," but I'm not sure if that's a good or bad recommendation.



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24 Dec 2011, 5:07 pm

I am not at all sure what is going on with your son. There could be so many things. Thirteen is the age where they start to notice the opposite sex and often develop a sense of idealism.

I will tell you about a 12 year old autistic boy who I know and love. He is not a relative, but if he needed a guardian I'd do it. (Oh help me.) He is obsessed with all things military, specifically soviet military. He sincerely dislikes the United States. He is paranoid. He always has a sense that someone is out to get him. He frequently carries a knife. I have confiscated several. I am one of the few people he respects because I'm not afraid of him. He's fairly convinced I could take him in a fight. I'm not so convinced but I'll never let him know that. More importantly, he's convinced that I'm bad enough to take anybody who could threaten him. (All 5'2" of me. :) If you listen to him and don't understand him it's easy to believe that he is a little psychopath. With the wrong handling it could happen, don't get me wrong. This Bad A little dude fosters kittens. He's actually rather gentle if you get to know him. His overwhelming motivation is FEAR, not violence.


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