Vigilans
Orgasm Donor
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 12091
Location: La belle province
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Dox47 wrote: | You'd get my endorsement too Vigilans, especially if it was the PPR mini-mod thing we've been kicking around as opposed to a site-wide modship. I get the distinct impression that that job sucks and I wouldn't want to inflict it on you, and I'm sure being the PPR fixer wouldn't be a walk in the park, but compared to say L&D I think it wouldn't be so bad. I don't always agree with your opinions, but I think you're very capable of making fair judgments, and most importantly I think you have flexible enough social instincts to know the difference between say a small blowup in a contentious topic vs continuous bullying/harassment or a long simmering feud boiling over, and that you have a feel for the norms in there vs a rigid view of the site rules. Think about it if they ask you, there's only a handful of people I'd consider capable of doing the job and most of them either wouldn't want it or wouldn't pass the background check...  |
Well thank you  I'm surprised anyone would think I am cut out for such a job but I am my own biggest critic. I'm still not sure that I would do it but as I mentioned I would consider it if enough people wanted me to do it.
I think that managing little feuds and ensuring a level of civility-within-barbarity should be the concern of such a "mini-mod". I agree with MCalavera's appreciation for intellectual integrity above all, but having part of the job description as ensuring such conduct sounds difficult and controversial; I doubt everyone would be pleased with the result. At best if an argument starts boiling into ad-hominems or is clearly a well-dressed troll attack (ie, an intelligent person deliberately using logical fallacies to "mess" with an oblivious member) I think it would be the duty of such a moderator to step in. I also think sock puppetry is an occasional pain in the ass in that subsection. Furthermore I do think that if a spirituality subsection cannot be separately created then this moderator should work to ensure that everyone of any beliefs or persuasion *can* discuss their beliefs in a non-debate context, if they make this wish clear in their OP. Other members can be free to open a debate about this topic in another thread so long as it is done within the bounds of respectability and the TOS
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
|
| Back to top |
|
pandabear
Fleeting Body
Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Age: 54
Posts: 9629
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Awesomelyglorious wrote: |
Frankly, you know it is quite obvious that there is a high level of personal animosity between myself and 91.
|
I actually never caught on to that. I thought that you were just having some good natured bantering, and that your jabs at each other were just in jest. Anyway, you're both stars in the PRR forum.
| Awesomelyglorious wrote: |
Honestly, if you're going to be regulating interpersonal behavior, you're probably going to want to handle this as relationships. I actually just don't want moderators getting involved as a general rule. Unless someone is outright trolling, I really don't care. I really don't want much moderation except if someone is literally and obviously trolling. So, contacting a moderator is really not how I'd want to handle things. Not only that, but if someone is just being obnoxious, and being "Bismarck's cigar", it'd be very hard to prove anything from a moderator standpoint, which is partly the basis of the comment in the first place. Not all things wrong can be against the rules. Not all things against the rules are wrong. |
I agree. There seem to be some members, though, who want to tattle to the moderators at every opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
visagrunt
Polymath
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Age: 45
Posts: 5754
Location: Vancouver, BC
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I continue to believe that the best moderation comes from within.
With so few moderators on so large a board, it seems to me impossible that the small crew can maintain anything like a semblence of order--and so most moderation will, of a necessity, involve a "stranger" to the board swooping in and imposing remediation.
I have seen moderators get caught up in potentially troublesome threads. Moderators must lead by example--so while the moderator tag should not mean that you are foreclosed from participation, it should mean that your participation should exemplify best practices. A moderator who has been slinging muck with the rest of them is hardly in a position to later close down the thread.
Too often I have seen threads locked with no explanation, or threads locked with an explanation, while other, similarly offending threads remain active. Moderation must be seen to be fair and consistent.
Most egregiously, I have seen threads edited by moderators. I take an, "all or nothing," approach. If a post is so offensive that it cannot remain, then it should be expunged in its entirety. Moderators should never presume to edit a member's post.
I think that there is a great deal of merit in having some "board specific" moderators out there. Ideally, they should be active participants in the boards that they moderate, known to the boards' regular participants and able to exercise a degree of judgement about when an IM would work better than a public warning, thread locking, post deletion or time-outs.
_________________
--James |
|
| Back to top |
|
Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
![]()
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | Honestly, I personally need some guidance on how to block a user. I have Google Chrome, and I don't know how to get that to work with WP's forum to block somebody. I know there is a Firefox version of a solution, but I'd rather not switch to Firefox. I also had problems trying to download greasemonkey for Firefox as well.... and so I am not sure even how to implement this for Firefox.
I think that in the case of persistent problems between particular posters, I don't think pure rule enforcement is really meaningful. If both sides have it personal against the other, then once again, we just have Bismarck's cigar. The question then comes down to which person has a higher proclivity towards politeness and those other personality variables, not really a question of "Is mod enforcement of the rules making WP a better place?" because the real issue is the conflict, not that a poster is generally disrespectful. |
I "think" it is as "easy" as making chrome use custom scripts and then pasting the firefox code me or lau made already. Maybe you should try this first: http://mashable.com/2010/02/01/google-chrome-greasemonkey-2/
_________________
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
pandabear
Fleeting Body
Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Age: 54
Posts: 9629
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hyperlexian wrote: |
i know exactly how you feel about moderation. IIRC, when i warned you, your response was that i should "f**k myself", which is an interesting response. you weren't the first, and you probably won't be the last.
|
Most moderators try very hard to be polite when moderating. You are often rather rude.
| hyperlexian wrote: |
i have an easy fix to avoid getting warned by a moderator: don't break the rules. you admit in your post above that you are sometimes in violation of the rules, so i imagine that you are quite aware when it happens. therefore it should not be hard to avoid. |
The interpretation of the rules, and the determination as to whether a rule has been violated, are very much dependent upon the nature of the moderator.
| hyperlexian wrote: |
if you feel like other people's infractions are getting missed and therefore you are receiving warnings when others are getting away with things, feel free to contact a moderator yourself.
|
Some of us are inclined neither to be tattle-tales, nor to have an inordinate interest in rules, infractions and warnings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pandabear wrote: | | Most moderators try very hard to be polite when moderating. You are often rather rude. |
how do you know whether i'm trying very hard or not? perhaps you have heard of a condition called asperger's syndrome.
| pandabear wrote: | | The interpretation of the rules, and the determination as to whether a rule has been violated, are very much dependent upon the nature of the moderator. |
to some degree, yes. you mentioned before you were some sort of judge, so i am certain you are familiar with this phenomenon.
if you have any doubts about my moderation towards you, feel free to contact another moderator with your concerns.
| pandabear wrote: | | Some of us are inclined neither to be tattle-tales, nor to have an inordinate interest in rules, infractions and warnings. |
so you don't really respect the rules, but expect that i will listen to your concerns about how they are applied? that's interesting.
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5043493.html#5043493 |
|
| Back to top |
|
Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
![]()
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My own philosophy is that I don't really care about what mods do. That way I can expect the same treatment for them.
_________________
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9299
Location: Northern California
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dox47 wrote: | | Master_Pedant wrote: | | There seems to be quite a few structural problems with WP moderation. There are too few moderators who are expected to moderate *way too many* forums. This has resulted in moderators, like quite a few public administrators, emphasizing responsiveness to complaints over proactive action or preventive de-escalation of conflicts. |
You know, I actually suggested some time ago that they add more mods, only to be told that 4 was enough and that they didn't want too many cooks in the kitchen or something to that effect. I can't remember who that was in particular that said that, I do seem to remember throwing out 10 as a possible number of mods though. I almost think they ought to go 1 per active forum at this point, L&D in particular sure seems like a full time gig these days.
That's a good term BTW, preventative de-escalation. That's another area where a mod that came from and stays active in PPR would be helpful, as most users here aren't going to report something that *might* get ugly and risk mod overreaction and forum ire if it got out that they brought the mod into it. |
I don't know how one could ever find 10 mods that all the other mods and Alex would approve of. Especially when you realize that means you probably actually need to find 40 - 60 suitable people per five year period. If anyone could, sure, the volume would be great.
_________________
Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS.
---
Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act |
|
| Back to top |
|
DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 9299
Location: Northern California
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bcousins wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | bcousins wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | alex does not take volunteers. |
Alrighty then, What do I need to do? |
alex does not pick people who want the job. |
Alex picks people that Do not want the job, Therefore making people do something they dont want to do, Therefore putting the site in jeopardy??? Seriously?
If thats what floats his boat. |
The concept is that people who actively seek or desire the job are more likely to get carried away with the authority they have been given. And wanting the job is far from proof a person would be any good at it.
Current moderators generally nominate people that have shown restraint or good judgement in multiple difficult posting situations, and Alex generally makes a final decision as to who he wants in the job. Some people get offered the position and decline to accept it; obviously, it is good to have moderators who are, at least, willing, even if they would never have sought the position.
_________________
Mom to an amazing AS boy (plus a non-AS daughter). Have at least a few AS genes myself, although probably more NT than AS.
---
Think of the greening of my name as an emeritus thing; I used to be a moderator but am retired and have no authority to act |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5180
Location: Seattle Area
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DW_a_mom wrote: | | I don't know how one could ever find 10 mods that all the other mods and Alex would approve of. Especially when you realize that means you probably actually need to find 40 - 60 suitable people per five year period. If anyone could, sure, the volume would be great. |
Oh I'm aware of the bottle-neck problem, it's one of the more persistent ones that comes up anytime the site mods are discussed. Given my own observations over the years, I'm starting to think that rather than having 4 full time mods or so, that something like a "mod pool" of 10 or more relatively active posters that switch off being "active" while still participating in the internal discussion and basic housekeeping when not actively "up" might be workable, and do a better job at reducing burnout as well. That seems to be the major issue with turnover, modwork as it's currently designed is fairly isolating, frustrating, unrewarding, etc, and it's hard to recruit suitable replacement candidates in a timely manner because of the no volunteers rule and the unknown qualifications that Alex uses in his final yes/no call. Having a pool would also reduce the "we need someone, anyone, NOW!" panics that seem to have lead to some bad selections when an unexpected retirement has occurred, and generally allow for faster reactions to developing situations without unduly burdening a small group of overworked volunteers.
Just thinking aloud here. 
_________________
Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
Murum aries attigit |
|
| Back to top |
|
bcousins
Phoenix
Joined: May 02, 2011
Posts: 620
Location: On a failed Tangara set at Blacktown
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DW_a_mom wrote: | | bcousins wrote: |
Alex picks people that Do not want the job, Therefore making people do something they dont want to do, Therefore putting the site in jeopardy??? Seriously?
If thats what floats his boat. |
The concept is that people who actively seek or desire the job are more likely to get carried away with the authority they have been given. And wanting the job is far from proof a person would be any good at it.
Current moderators generally nominate people that have shown restraint or good judgement in multiple difficult posting situations, and Alex generally makes a final decision as to who he wants in the job. Some people get offered the position and decline to accept it; obviously, it is good to have moderators who are, at least, willing, even if they would never have sought the position. |
And that is fantastic logic - however speaking as a forum owner myself, I find a "Hiring" process to be the best method for finding staff that would cope with the workload. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Vigilans
Orgasm Donor
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 12091
Location: La belle province
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My own endorsement for a "PPR-mod" would go to visagrunt, personally
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5180
Location: Seattle Area
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Vigilans wrote: | | My own endorsement for a "PPR-mod" would go to visagrunt, personally |
I think he'd do great as well; I actually think he may have been tapped before and turned it down though. What is it with you Canadian Vs and being reasonable?
_________________
Unconditional allegiance is the surest way to render one’s beliefs and agenda irrelevant
Any power that government has to do something you like will invariably be used for something you abhor
Murum aries attigit |
|
| Back to top |
|
MCalavera
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 3993
Location: Melbourne
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'd volunteer for the job, but I know how much I'm loved by the mods here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dox47 wrote: | | Vigilans wrote: | | My own endorsement for a "PPR-mod" would go to visagrunt, personally |
I think he'd do great as well; I actually think he may have been tapped before and turned it down though. What is it with you Canadian Vs and being reasonable? |
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5043493.html#5043493 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
